What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

Yes praise the Lord in the new heavens and new earth there will be none of those sad, terrible things. However.....God is greater than what He makes and in His eternal presence there is a `consuming fire.` (Heb. 12: 29)

Someone who is not covered by Christ will be eternally in their own soul/spirit without a body that can be physically burned. They will have the consequences of their choice apart from God`s great kingdom.

CV5,

All that you say is YOUR own gospel, not our Lords.

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!"--Galatians 1:8

Like a demon or fallen angel. Those are persons too.

No, because Luke agreed with Jesus. The fire is everlasting!

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

OT NEVER overrules NT!

"The rich man also died"
"being in torments"
"he cried"
"I am tormented in this flame"
"this place of torment"

Luke 16:22-28 (NKJV)
22 The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' 27 Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'

And don't say it's a parable. It's not. There is ZERO proof that it's a parable.

OT NEVER overrules NT!

Death does not mean "cease to exist". Adam and Eve died the day they sinned but they were still alive.

"OT NEVER overrules NT!"

"Everlasting destruction", a process that NEVER ends.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 (NKJV)
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Death NEVER means "cease to exist" in the Bible. Just as Adam and Eve died but were still alive, so are the unGodly.

1 Timothy 5:6 (NKJV)
6 But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.[/QUOTE

Ill let Matthew tell you himself that it was a parable:
“All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did NOT speak anything to them without a parable.”—Matthew 13:34

Never in the history of the world have I heard anyone at anytime say death doesnt mean death. That is complete and utter nonsense. If words dont mean what they mean then know one can understand scripture.

I strongly suspect that Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.

No. The resurrection of the unsaved proves they will have bodies. And since they are not saved, they do not get immortal bodies. That's why so many scriptures say they will be destroyed, consumed and vanish away because that's what happens in a cremation.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

"The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved." Psalm 75:3.

"Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more." Psalm 104:35.

"Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be." Psalm 59:13.

"The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalm 145:20

"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: Psalm 92:7

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be as stubble; and the day cometh that shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1

"And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed." Isaiah 1:28

"Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the fate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat." Matthew 7:13

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20

So you're admitting God will burn them alive "forever and ever"?

Ill let Matthew tell you himself that it was a parable:
“All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did NOT speak anything to them without a parable.”—Matthew 13:34

Never in the history of the world have I heard anyone at anytime say death doesnt mean death. That is complete and utter nonsense. If words dont mean what they mean then know one can understand scripture.

Yes, but only them because that is not said about anyone else plus there is a very high probability that "forever and ever" is a figure of speech and not literal since God uses similar wording for things not still burning.

Why I believe Romans 5:17 is talking about spiritual death is this: God said in Genesis 2:17 that they would "die that same day" if they ate the fruit. Adam didn't die until 930 years later. So Romans 5:17 is not physical death because he didn't physically die the same day he sinned.

Genesis 2:17
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Romans 5:17
17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)



I would say that sin doesn't cause physical death for two reasons:

1. Jesus of Nazareth is a sinless person and He died a physical death.

2. The only reason sinners die a physical death is due to not having access to the Tree of Life.

Genesis 3:22
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Could fallen mankind eat from the tree of life and live forever? Sure seems like God suggested that in Genesis 3:22, but He wouldn't allow it.

Thank you ewq, for all those scriptures.

We can see that some of them were what people wanted to happen to the wicked, and some were what God said - that he wold destroy them. The Hebrew word is ` shamad,` meaning to desolate - afflict, laid waste, destitute, comfortless, forlorn.

So we can see it is not annihilation.

it is NOT a physical burning of a body that obviously will be consumed. The wicked do NOT get to have a BODY!

Jhn 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

So tell us....what exactly has been "finished" on the cross by Jesus. Finished dying by crucifixion in the flesh? Or finished suffering a limitless eternity of WRATH and PUNISHMENT poured out by a just God dispensing said justice upon Jesus? Is this the punishment that all of us deserve? A punishment that the Eternal God Jesus absorbed in a mere 3 hours?

Please render your invaluable opinion in this important matter....

BTW, wrath does not equal death....they are not equivalent terms as you believe. Death is merely ONE possible result of wrath. Wrath encompasses a potentially infinite degree and type of punishments. The 70 AD judgement, "wrath" and destruction of Jerusalem (Luke 21:23) certainly did NOT simply kill everyone. Luke 21:22 indicates that it is a time of "vengeance" G1557 ekdikēsis (a revenging, vengeance, punishment ).

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Please tell us...what exactly is this "wrath" that Jesus is speaking of. Do you say that is is an equivalent term for "death"?

Jhn 3:36
“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath (G3709) of God abides on him.”


Rom 9:22
What if God, wanting to show His wrath (G3709) and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath (G3709) prepared for destruction (G684),

As you can see.....WRATH and DESTRUCTION are mutually exclusive here in Rom 9:22.

Destruction (apōleia):
STRONGS NT 684: ἀπώλεια
ἀπώλεια, -ας, ἡ, (from ἀπόλλυμι, which see);
1. actively, a destroying, utter destruction: as, of vessels, Romans 9:22; τοῦ μύρου, waste, Mark 14:4 (in Matthew 26:8 without a genitive) (in Polybius 6, 59, 5 consumption, opposed to τήρησις); the putting of a man to death, Acts 25:16 Rec.; by metonymy, a destructive thing or opinion: in plural 2 Peter 2:2 Rec.; but the correct reading ἀσελγείαις was long ago adopted here.
2. passively, a perishing, ruin, destruction;
a. in general: τὸ ἀργύριόν σου σύν σοι εἴη εἰς ἀπ., let thy money perish with thee, Acts 8:20; βυθίζειν τινὰ εἰς ὄλεθρον κ. ἀπώλειαν, with the included idea of misery, 1 Timothy 6:9; αἱρέσεις ἀπωλείας destructive opinions, 2 Peter 2:1; ἐπάγειν ἑαυτοῖς ἀπώλειαν, ibid. cf. 2 Peter 2:3.
b. in particular, the destruction which consists in the loss of eternal life, eternal misery, perdition, the lot of those excluded from the kingdom of God: Revelation 17:8, 11, cf. Revelation 19:20; Philippians 3:19; 2 Peter 3:16; opposed to ἡ περιποίησις τῆς ψυχῆς, Hebrews 10:39; to ἡ ζωή, Matthew 7:13; to σωτηρία, Philippians 1:28. ὁ υἱὸς τῆς ἀπωλείας, a man doomed to eternal misery (a Hebraism, see υἱός, 2): 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (of Antichrist); John 17:12 (of Judas, the traitor); ἡμέρα κρίσεως κ. ἀπωλείας τῶν ἀσεβῶν, 2 Peter 3:7. (In secular authors from Polybius as above [but see Aristotle, probl. 17, 3, 2, vol. ii., p. 916a, 26; 29, 14, 10 ibid. 952b, 26; Nicom. eth. 4, 1 ibid. 1120a, 2, etc.]; often in the Sept. and O. T. Apocrypha.)

Actually since it is blasphemy to attrribute evil to God, I suspect it will be the other way around.🧐

John 3:16 is just a parable? I don't think so.

Ok, you've never read the Bible? Start with Adam who died but was still alive.

Was it evil when God drowned everyone on Earth including children and burned Sodom alive including children, "making them an example"?

2 Peter 2:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

Youre kidding me right? That is John speaking about Jesus— why would anyone mistake that for a parable?. And it is the most well known proof text for annihilation.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH, but have everlasting

You cannot compare drowning which take mere minutes to the diabolical idea of eternal conscious torment. They died quickly.

You cannot compare drowning which take mere minutes to the diabolical idea of eternal conscious torment. They died quickly.