What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

Doesn't change fact that God does use the concept of fire and forever as not actually lasting forever. The second issue here is even IF you are right on that ONE VERSE, it still only can apply to the beast, FP and Devil. The wording of fire and forever is not applied to anyone else in any verse in the bible.

No one disputes that fire is everlasting but it doesn't say the people are everlasting, does it? That's two verses where you say it says something that neither verse actually says. Again, this is pure Eisegesis in action. When one uses Eisegesis they are automatically in wrong before they ever click on the Post Reply button.

So the `judgment` of God is no pain, or suffering or consequences for these so-called dead ones?

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
It's "everlasting fire". You're playing word games.
OT overrules NT??? Not for Christians!
Yes. Adam and Eve died the day they sinned. But the still lived.
Stick with the NT. You'll be much better off. That's what Christians do.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Your opinions do not overrule the NT. You're trying to rewrite our NT to fit YOUR doctrine.

There is initial pain and suffering but created bodies cannot last very long in such a fire. remember no pain can exist in new heaven and new Earth according to scripture so that proves eternal torture is false:

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


These DO NOT exist in NHNE:


1. death

2. sorrow

3. crying

4. pain


If eternal torment was true, then all those things would still exist.

Yes I did.

In my Post #735, I said:

""the beast" (per Rev13:5-7 paralleling Dan7:20-24,8,11--a person!) and "the false prophet" (also a person!) are said of them "and THEY shall be tormented day and night unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" "





THESE TWO are most certainly "PEOPLE"!

Others are also said of them (v.15): "cast into the lake of fire"...

...and Matt25:41 does say "into everlasting fire HAVING BEEN PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL and his angels" and we see that "the devil" is not "cast into" until AFTER the 1000 years (at the GWTj point), see.

And "the devil" is among the three listed in v.10 as... "and THEY shall be tormented day and night unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" (which all 21 occurrences of THIS phrase ALWAYS *mean* the SAME THING!) Do you believe the "Revelation of Jesus Christ" or not??

Only those who don't have a clue what bible says. Oh, and go learn difference between Hades and Lake of fire since you don't understand that either. Ignore the OT? Yeah that's the wisest thing anyone has ever said on a bible forum!

Are you JW? JW's HATE "They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER".
I didn't say "ignore the OT". You just lied!

@ewq1938

FEEL BETTER?

Still dodging I see. No surprise there.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Verse 15 doesn't say anyone will be "tormented day and night for ever and ever." does it? Only verse 10 says that and it says it only for the beast, FP and Devil. No one else is said to be tormented forever.

You are tryingt o change verse 15 so it says, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

But the verse does not say that. Here is an example.

If I made a lake of fire and cast a piece of paper and a freshly cut 500 foot tall tree in the fire at same time, will they burn for same amount of time or does one burn up very fast and other more slowly?

Hey buddy, if you think it's a good idea to give negative ratings don't complain if someone does it back to you.

False prophet? Sounds just like a person to me.

I meant 20:15 but even verse 10 IMO is not speaking of people ie: human beings. The beast is a government of ten kings and kingdoms spanning 7 areas of land called mountains. False prophet is a demon, fallen angel of satan IMO, and satan is a fallen archangel

A fallen angel or demon can speak false prophecies and therefore be a false prophet.

Yes praise the Lord in the new heavens and new earth there will be none of those sad, terrible things. However.....God is greater than what He makes and in His eternal presence there is a `consuming fire.` (Heb. 12: 29)

Someone who is not covered by Christ will be eternally in their own soul/spirit without a body that can be physically burned. They will have the consequences of their choice apart from God`s great kingdom.

Only through a false prophet, a person.

No. The resurrection of the unsaved proves they will have bodies. And since they are not saved, they do not get immortal bodies. That's why so many scriptures say they will be destroyed, consumed and vanish away because that's what happens in a cremation.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

"The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved." Psalm 75:3.

"Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more." Psalm 104:35.

"Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be." Psalm 59:13.

"The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalm 145:20

"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: Psalm 92:7

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be as stubble; and the day cometh that shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1

"And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed." Isaiah 1:28

"Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the fate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat." Matthew 7:13

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:20

A merry heart doeth good like a medicine
@ewq1938

Like a demon or fallen angel. Those are persons too.