Not By Works

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BillG

BillG

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CherieR

CherieR

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BillG said:
Have you read this and believe it and walking through their recommendations to deal with it?

This link not only talks about Christianity but other major religions.
None of which have the Holy Spirit and believe Jesus died and rose again.
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OCD shows up in the other religions as well. I do not adhere to other religions doctrines. Just Christianity.

I need to work on going through the advice on working through OCD more. Very easy to seek after reassurance for me.
 
VCO

VCO

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CherieR said:
Which good works are evidence and how is it evidence? If one looks for evidence of their salvation through their good works, couldn’t this self analysis be subjective and possibly distorted?

Proverbs 21:2 ( KJV) states that “ Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.”
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CherieR, I had hoped you were one, who understands.

It is the LORD who searches the Heart, for the MOTIVE behind the deed. Only God Given LOVE is the only pure Motive for the Deed of Good Works. Without it is Wood, Hay, and Stubble, at BEST.

1 Chronicles 28:9-10 (HCSB)
9 “As for you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands the intention of every thought. If you seek Him, He will be found by you, but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.
10 Realize now that the LORD has chosen you to build a house for the sanctuary. Be strong, and do it.”

Romans 8:27 (NRSV)
27 And God, who searches the heart, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Revelation 2:23 (HCSB)
23 . . . Then all the churches will know that I am the One who examines minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works.

1 Thessalonians 2:19 (NCV)
19 You are our hope, our joy, and the crown we will take pride in when our Lord Jesus Christ comes.


The MOTIVE of LOVE for your fellow man has to be their, for it to be considered a GOOD WORK; and a genuine Christian will have it automatically.
 
CherieR

CherieR

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VCO said:
CherieR, I had hoped you were one, who understands.

It is the LORD who searches the Heart, for the MOTIVE behind the deed. Only God Given LOVE is the only pure Motive for the Deed of Good Works. Without it is Wood, Hay, and Stubble, at BEST.

1 Chronicles 28:9-10 (HCSB)
9 “As for you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands the intention of every thought. If you seek Him, He will be found by you, but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.
10 Realize now that the LORD has chosen you to build a house for the sanctuary. Be strong, and do it.”

Romans 8:27 (NRSV)
27 And God, who searches the heart, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Revelation 2:23 (HCSB)
23 . . . Then all the churches will know that I am the One who examines minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works.

1 Thessalonians 2:19 (NCV)
19 You are our hope, our joy, and the crown we will take pride in when our Lord Jesus Christ comes.


The MOTIVE of LOVE for your fellow man has to be their, for it to be considered a GOOD WORK; and a genuine Christian will have it automatically.
Click to expand...
I can agree that the motive of love is necessary to be a good work. Certainly if one is doing good to get the praise of others, this is wrong motivation. However people often tend to look at their own works and motives in a good light; therefore, it seems to me one can come to the wrong conclusion concerning their own works and motives.
God knows the heart though.
 
J

Justified

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CherieR said:
How does the Lord do this inspection of the heart star? To be honest, I have often experienced self questioning about my own faith. I feel like I have over analyzed the genuineness of my faith and at times I would feel assured but self doubt would return. I heard that the solution is to look to Christ .
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I can remember a number of years ago when I would have those bouts of self doubt. But I talked to an older minister of mine who told me something that at the time did not quite click but has made since as I have gotten older. When I asked him how he knew he was saved his reply was "I know, that I know, that I know". Not the kind of answer I was looking for but he said I would come to understand it and he was right.
I know that Christ Jesus died to cover the sins of the world, therefore I know that His atonement covered my sins, therefore I know that I am saved.
Hope this helps you when the devil attacks and causes you to doubt, it has done so for me.
 
J

Justified

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VCO said:
Not at all, no works deception. Salvation was ACCOMPLISHED IN FULL, by our ALL KNOWING GOD, BEFORE TIME BEGAN.
Never has SALVATION been because of the good works you have done; it is only the evidence that you have been Saved, BEFORE TIME BEGAN. BESIDES THAT, SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT, NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN EARN. DON'T YOU KNOW, that SALVATION has Never been part of the the Heavenly Reward, which has always been CROWNS.
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I only have two questions for you, if as you say, salvation was accomplished in full before time began, then why the cross? Why did Christ Jesus have to suffer for something that was already accomplished. And why the requirement for faith?
 
R

rayzor

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Justified said:
I only have two questions for you, if as you say, salvation was accomplished in full before time began, then why the cross? Why did Christ Jesus have to suffer for something that was already accomplished. And why the requirement for faith?
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The father need to to be god through his son,,,thus the devil in the garden to make man fall.So there be reason for mercy sacrifice ect. there's other things like the world was done in 7 days and be not a keeper of times.One scip Gal 4:10
 
CherieR

CherieR

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Justified said:
I can remember a number of years ago when I would have those bouts of self doubt. But I talked to an older minister of mine who told me something that at the time did not quite click but has made since as I have gotten older. When I asked him how he knew he was saved his reply was "I know, that I know, that I know". Not the kind of answer I was looking for but he said I would come to understand it and he was right.
I know that Christ Jesus died to cover the sins of the world, therefore I know that His atonement covered my sins, therefore I know that I am saved.
Hope this helps you when the devil attacks and causes you to doubt, it has done so for me.
Click to expand...
I believe I will know I’m safe and accepted if on the day I have to appear before God to give account that Jesus embraces me. For me, if Jesus receives and accepts me as his own then I am safe. That’s what counts.

I once told a friend in so many words that I felt if I had been on the earth while Jesus was on the earth and came to him , then he would receive me; however, now for some reason there is a disconnect.

Many a time I have found the words of Christ a delight. Certain Scriptures have been interpreted before in such a way in my mind that brought fear, though I believe I haven’t always interpreted them correctly.
 
J

Justified

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CherieR said:
I believe I will know I’m safe and accepted if on the day I have to appear before God to give account that Jesus embraces me. For me, if Jesus receives and accepts me as his own then I am safe. That’s what counts.

I once told a friend in so many words that I felt if I had been on the earth while Jesus was on the earth and came to him , then he would receive me; however, now for some reason there is a disconnect.

Many a time I have found the words of Christ a delight. Certain Scriptures have been interpreted before in such a way in my mind that brought fear, though I believe I haven’t always interpreted them correctly.
Click to expand...
This a verse will show you the love of Christ Jesus. He is the one that holds us secure in His love.

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
 
VCO

VCO

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For those who think SALVATION is something you earn threw your GOOD WORKS; I want to show you just How Wrong you are.

Ephesians 4:1-3 (NCV)
1 I am in prison because I belong to the Lord. God chose you to be his people, so I urge you now to live the life to which God called you.
2 Always be humble, gentle, and patient, accepting each other in love.
3 You are joined together with peace through the Spirit, so make every effort to continue together in this way.

NOTICE the Past Tense verbiage CALLED YOU. So when do you suppose GOD CALLED YOU ? ? ?

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

CHRIST, the ALL KNOWING CREATOR OF MADE THE DECISION before time began!

By trying to take part of the Credit for part of SALVATION, are you not trying to ROB Christ of ALL OF THE GLORY that TOTALY BELONGS TO HIM, BEFORE TIME BEGAN.
 
Chester

Chester

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star said:
I looked at Chester's words and saw what he said. The "salvation" part was the main point in my original post. Chester speaks of not liking the "all we need to" which as far as salvation goes, faith in Jesus Christ is the "all we need for accepting Jesus whom as given the "grace" for us to be saved. Faith is what we have to express and have in our hearts before the "gift" of salvation can be given. As for Christian living, that should follow the salvation part with our hearts full of thankfulness for that gift.
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I am in complete agreement with your sentiment that it is not by works but by faith (believing) in Jesus that we are justified before God. But what I find disconcerting is when Christian living is tacked onto the end in the last sentence (as you do above) as a "should." I do not live my Christian life because I "should": my life in Christ of fighting for His Kingdom and His glory is front line importance, priority, and is who I am in Christ Jesus!
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

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CherieR said:
I believe I will know I’m safe and accepted if on the day I have to appear before God to give account that Jesus embraces me.
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Precious friend, I believe such man-made statements as "I know that I know that I know," and "I believe I will know when and IF such and such occurs" are leaving out God's Ways And Thoughts, Which, "According To The Scriptures":

"For My Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My Ways, Saith
The LORD. For as the Heavens are higher than the earth, so are My Ways higher
than your ways, and My Thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah_55:8-9)

1) IF believing, trusting, In faith, are in The Words Of The Gospel Of GRACE,
"According To The Scriptures," For God's ETERNAL Salvation, Then, why wouldn't
The Assurance of The Same Be Also "According To The Scriptures," as Paul asks
Several Times: "What Saith The Scriptures?":

2) IF As Scriptures Declare, That God Has Given His ETERNAL children "a Sound
mind" (2 Timothy 1:7), then should we not believe ALL That Scriptures Saith?
ie:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's FREE Gift of ETERNAL Life!

3) Of course, IF we are suffering DOUBT, thinking only about "Certain
MISinterpreted, out-of-context verses" that men say / change God's Word
"ETERNAL" Into "temporary," then maybe we should back up and "examine
ourSELF" (2 Corinthians 13:5), and "start All Over"? ie: God's Simple Will!

Precious friend, I will pray for you...
 
CherieR

CherieR

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GRACE_ambassador said:
Precious friend, I believe such man-made statements as "I know that I know that I know," and "I believe I will know when and IF such and such occurs" are leaving out God's Ways And Thoughts, Which, "According To The Scriptures":

"For My Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My Ways, Saith
The LORD. For as the Heavens are higher than the earth, so are My Ways higher
than your ways, and My Thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah_55:8-9)

1) IF believing, trusting, In faith, are in The Words Of The Gospel Of GRACE,
"According To The Scriptures," For God's ETERNAL Salvation, Then, why wouldn't
The Assurance of The Same Be Also "According To The Scriptures," as Paul asks
Several Times: "What Saith The Scriptures?":

2) IF As Scriptures Declare, That God Has Given His ETERNAL children "a Sound
mind" (2 Timothy 1:7), then should we not believe ALL That Scriptures Saith?
ie:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's FREE Gift of ETERNAL Life!

3) Of course, IF we are suffering DOUBT, thinking only about "Certain
MISinterpreted, out-of-context verses" that men say / change God's Word
"ETERNAL" Into "temporary," then maybe we should back up and "examine
ourSELF" (2 Corinthians 13:5), and "start All Over"? ie: God's Simple Will!

Precious friend, I will pray for you...
Click to expand...
Thanks for the prayer. I probably do need to have more faith in God’s word more than I do. Probably would be less anxious then :). I certainly have found comfort in the word of God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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Justified said:
I only have two questions for you, if as you say, salvation was accomplished in full before time began, then why the cross? Why did Christ Jesus have to suffer for something that was already accomplished. And why the requirement for faith?
Click to expand...
Omniscience of God

why would you limit God to time, which is a finite measure on an infinite God?
 
VCO

VCO

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CherieR said:
I can agree that the motive of love is necessary to be a good work. Certainly if one is doing good to get the praise of others, this is wrong motivation. However people often tend to look at their own works and motives in a good light; therefore, it seems to me one can come to the wrong conclusion concerning their own works and motives.
God knows the heart though.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a personal problem to me. The only one who can truly see the Heart, is GOD HIMSELF. The person who wants to be seen by others is a modern day Pharisee.
 
CherieR

CherieR

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VCO said:
That sounds like a personal problem to me. The only one who can truly see the Heart, is GOD HIMSELF. The person who wants to be seen by others is a modern day Pharisee.
Click to expand...
If God is the only one who sees the heart, then could that mean oneself may not accurately judge their own motives at times? For example thinking it is a motive of love but being self-deceived?
 
VCO

VCO

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Justified said:
I only have two questions for you, if as you say, salvation was accomplished in full before time began, then why the cross? Why did Christ Jesus have to suffer for something that was already accomplished. And why the requirement for faith?
Click to expand...

You really do not understand what I absolutely BELIEVE.

GOD exists outside of TIME itself. HE declares the END from the Beginning, because HE IS ALREADY THERE.

HE exists not only in every cubit inch of the UNINVERSE, and HEAVEN at the same TIME; but in all time at the same instance.

HE is the creator of TIME itself, NOT A CREATED BEING TRAVELING THROUGH TIME.

HE knows ALL, past, present, and future.

Isaiah 46:10 (HCSB)
10 I declare the end from the beginning, and from long ago what is not yet done, saying:
My plan will take place, and I will do all My will.
 
VCO

VCO

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CherieR said:
If God is the only one who sees the heart, then could that mean oneself may not accurately judge their own motives at times? For example thinking it is a motive of love but being self-deceived?
Click to expand...
I should have added: 100% of the time! YES, those who are DECIEVED, have LOWERED GOD's Standards to something they can KEEP.
 
J

Justified

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eternally-gratefull said:
Omniscience of God

why would you limit God to time, which is a finite measure on an infinite God?
Click to expand...
I ask you the same question "if we were saved before time began then why the cross" Although God is timeless we are not. While God knows who will be saved we do not. Salvation happens in time when we place our faith in Christ Jesus. But if we were saved before time began we would not even need faith to be saved would we.
 
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