What are Your Thoughts About Financially Independent Women?
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huh I dont know about physical attractiveness or financial attractiveness or whether its men or women or what or who wants who for what or this that and the other, or even if any of that is even important or counts for anything...
Whats important is what God thinks of us.
Jesus sees a poor widow depositing a mite into the temple box..it was all she had
Jesus also accepts a very expensive perfume poured all over him that cost a months wages from a woman who had worked and saved to lavish on him
What did Jesus see in both women? A heart that was giving and generous with what little or much those women had.
Whats important is what God thinks of us.
Jesus sees a poor widow depositing a mite into the temple box..it was all she had
Jesus also accepts a very expensive perfume poured all over him that cost a months wages from a woman who had worked and saved to lavish on him
What did Jesus see in both women? A heart that was giving and generous with what little or much those women had.
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That's the thing about the Christian life.
When young Christians are told that they should consider looks when marrying (and I'm certainly not saying they shouldn't,) they aren't told the other half of the conditions -- that someday when you get old and lose your looks, you still have to stay with that same person, even if, as you've said, they become someone you no longer want to "eat dinner and stare across the table from", or someone you "don't want to look at" anymore.
As we all know, a lot of Christians fall susceptible to this and trade their spouse in for a shinier, better-looking model (after all, God wants the very best for them!)
But God doesn't give us a free pass for when a spouse is no longer attractive to us or if they are no longer attracted to us.
Marriage is the original "ride or die" situation, and no one tells us how to stay with someone we're not attracted to anymore, or worse, are at a point of finding them completely unattractive -- because as much as anyone doesn't like it, this is what God demands from us in order to be with someone.
I love the lyrics about this from an old song, "Heat of the Moment", by the band Asia:
"And when your looks are gone, and you're alone,
How many nights you sit beside the phone.
What were the things you wanted for yourself?
Teenage ambitions -- you remember well."
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Hi Sculpt!
I really appreciate your honest answers -- thank you for being brave enough to take a swing.
As far as physical attraction goes (for both men and for women,) my one hang-up is that physical attractiveness does not last, so when we advise people to marry with physical attractiveness in mind, what happens when the wife has gone through a couple of pregnancies (and can't lose the weight or stretch marks,) and the husband's college drinking starts to settle into the shape of an overly inflated tire around his waist?
As an example of this topic, I've posted threads in the past featuring pictures of celebrities known for their good looks (Elizabeth Taylor and Jan-Michael Vincent, a personal childhood crush of mine) and photos of what happened to their impossibly good looks as time went by. And these were people who could afford the very best means of trying to hold on to their attractiveness, but could not.
I've spent the last several decades of my life living around senior populations in which spouses were traded in for better-looking models when looks faded, or where there are still people who are just as interested in romantic love as when they were teenagers, except now the dating pool has white hair (or bald patches, or none at all), turkey necks, liver spots, and bellies the size of expanded beach balls (and I'm talking about the men.) But yet many of these people still hope to find someone to be with (and many are still just as superficial when it comes to looks, as they still hope to snag someone 20 younger and better-looking.)
I've been hanging out in the CC Singles forum for about 12 years, and I've seen the importance of looks and attraction come up in threads all the time.
While I agree that attraction is important to people, I've also come to the personal conclusion that the Christian community is also the pickiest and most challenging to navigate because everyone believes that God "wants the best for them," which they think means that God will give them everything they want in a potential spouse, including dashing good looks.
I also agree that for most, it would be hard to settle into a relationship with, let alone marry someone they're not physically attracted to.
But I can't also help but believe that the only way a couple will stay together is out of faith and commitment to God (if looks are a high priority,) because no one, not even billionaire celebrities who can afford the best of everything, can hang on to their looks.
I'm truly sorry about the dating experiences you've had in your last two relationships -- it really is a jungle out there. I tell all my married friends, "If you've found someone you can stand to put up with and they put up with you, just stick with them because dating is nothing but a shark tank, especially as you get older."
I also understand what you're saying about being ok with everyone else not agreeing with you about what you may find as attractive, and that can be a very beautiful thing. I've always been attracted to quirks and things that other people told me I was weird for liking, lol.
But we are who God made us, and we like what we like.
Thank you for your openness and straight-from-the heart answers. Looking forward to more in the future.
I really appreciate your honest answers -- thank you for being brave enough to take a swing.
As far as physical attraction goes (for both men and for women,) my one hang-up is that physical attractiveness does not last, so when we advise people to marry with physical attractiveness in mind, what happens when the wife has gone through a couple of pregnancies (and can't lose the weight or stretch marks,) and the husband's college drinking starts to settle into the shape of an overly inflated tire around his waist?
As an example of this topic, I've posted threads in the past featuring pictures of celebrities known for their good looks (Elizabeth Taylor and Jan-Michael Vincent, a personal childhood crush of mine) and photos of what happened to their impossibly good looks as time went by. And these were people who could afford the very best means of trying to hold on to their attractiveness, but could not.
I've spent the last several decades of my life living around senior populations in which spouses were traded in for better-looking models when looks faded, or where there are still people who are just as interested in romantic love as when they were teenagers, except now the dating pool has white hair (or bald patches, or none at all), turkey necks, liver spots, and bellies the size of expanded beach balls (and I'm talking about the men.) But yet many of these people still hope to find someone to be with (and many are still just as superficial when it comes to looks, as they still hope to snag someone 20 younger and better-looking.)
I've been hanging out in the CC Singles forum for about 12 years, and I've seen the importance of looks and attraction come up in threads all the time.
While I agree that attraction is important to people, I've also come to the personal conclusion that the Christian community is also the pickiest and most challenging to navigate because everyone believes that God "wants the best for them," which they think means that God will give them everything they want in a potential spouse, including dashing good looks.
I also agree that for most, it would be hard to settle into a relationship with, let alone marry someone they're not physically attracted to.
But I can't also help but believe that the only way a couple will stay together is out of faith and commitment to God (if looks are a high priority,) because no one, not even billionaire celebrities who can afford the best of everything, can hang on to their looks.
I'm truly sorry about the dating experiences you've had in your last two relationships -- it really is a jungle out there. I tell all my married friends, "If you've found someone you can stand to put up with and they put up with you, just stick with them because dating is nothing but a shark tank, especially as you get older."
I also understand what you're saying about being ok with everyone else not agreeing with you about what you may find as attractive, and that can be a very beautiful thing. I've always been attracted to quirks and things that other people told me I was weird for liking, lol.
But we are who God made us, and we like what we like.
Thank you for your openness and straight-from-the heart answers. Looking forward to more in the future.
It's hard to cover everything in one post. I think both of us have absolutely no doubt that the way to have a loving lifelong marriage is when both are christians fear God and are 100% committed to staying married for life, least you break your word with God, and hurt his son/daughter beyond what you would ever want to dare to do. I don't think you can open-up and trust completely, and love completely, unless you both have that absolute commitment. I think one would be a total fool to try to marry without it.
Regarding physical attractiveness... I want to re-stress, like I thought I did at length in my prior post, I'm not talking about 'good looks'; I'm talking about physical attraction. It's not the same thing. Thinking someone has an attractive face can be part of physical attraction, and the most obvious, but it's just one sign of physical attraction.
I mean think about it... we find lot of people with attractive traits such as faith, love of God and people, friendship, personality, good looks, etc, but it doesn't necessarily mean we are going to try to marry them. They may be married, the wrong sex, an inappropriate age, an unbeliever, etc.
In another post you wrote, "When young Christians are told that they should consider looks when marrying". I've never heard anyone say to young christians they should consider looks when marrying; have you? Were you referring to me, or what I said Josh McDowell said? I can certainly understand if that's the case. It can be broken down to that simple consideration, but also misconstrued, or highlighted inappropriately.
I was shocked when I heard Josh wrote/said this (I think it was in a cassette tape of one of his talks on dating). We would've expected the opposite. And that's why I had to ponder it, and I'll never forget it. Heck, maybe he was wrong. You can be right about some things and wrong about others. It's his opinion, he didn't say it was specifically 'a word from God'. I wish I still had that quote. I should write him about it, see if he changed his mind.
I did ponder it. I think he has a point, if it's placed inside the right context. He thought it was one component -- one component, if missing at the start may be concerning. If you consider what a famous christian lifelong marriage counselor wrote (and you'll probably recognize this): when a couple gets together, they start with assets and debits (and not talking about money). Where they are alike, those are assets, where they are different, those are deficits. Opposites don't attract, except regarding biological sexual attraction. He said you have to count up those assets and deficits... and you better not start in debt. Physical attraction that goes beyond 'good looks' and into the soul, the kind of physical attraction that highlights different things overtime and lasts a lifetime, is an asset on the balance sheet. Does that make sense?
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Glad you mentioned that! There's always other aspects to statements.
It's so hard to cover everything in one post.
Couples compliment each other. Some are good with finance, and the other is an idea person. And you can name a million other great combos.
The point the lifelong christian counselor clinical psychologist was making was about 'interests' generally speaking. If your potential mate is adventurous, likes to go handgliding, at a moments notice, and hiking, and an unplanned flight to Bangkok, you better be sure that's also your interest. You may like the occasional adventure. You may like the idea of being more adventurous. But if your potential mate is adventurous, you better re-examine yourself to make sure that's what you can be, or you're looking at a big fat deficit, not an asset. Does that make sense?
It's so hard to cover everything in one post.
Couples compliment each other. Some are good with finance, and the other is an idea person. And you can name a million other great combos.
The point the lifelong christian counselor clinical psychologist was making was about 'interests' generally speaking. If your potential mate is adventurous, likes to go handgliding, at a moments notice, and hiking, and an unplanned flight to Bangkok, you better be sure that's also your interest. You may like the occasional adventure. You may like the idea of being more adventurous. But if your potential mate is adventurous, you better re-examine yourself to make sure that's what you can be, or you're looking at a big fat deficit, not an asset. Does that make sense?
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I know how you meant it. I made the comment because it needed to be made, not to correct or question you.
And it IS nice that couples compliment each other. Everybody needs an occasional compliment. =^.^=
(Yes I know you meant "complement" but that comment I made just because it was amusing.)
And it IS nice that couples compliment each other. Everybody needs an occasional compliment. =^.^=
(Yes I know you meant "complement" but that comment I made just because it was amusing.)
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Looks are nice...
But familiarity breeds contempt...and you get used to the appearance of a person...and you get to see them when they look anything but attractive...and they you.
Like first thing when you wake up in the morning and have crusties around your eyes and dried drool on your cheek, hair looking like a haystack, and breath that would make a goat hold it's nose.
It had better be love... because that first morning is always rough.
But familiarity breeds contempt...and you get used to the appearance of a person...and you get to see them when they look anything but attractive...and they you.
Like first thing when you wake up in the morning and have crusties around your eyes and dried drool on your cheek, hair looking like a haystack, and breath that would make a goat hold it's nose.
It had better be love... because that first morning is always rough.
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Heh... I remember a story about an opera director who had two loves. One lady was beautiful, but could not sing. The other was ugly, but had an amazing voice.
Art won out and he married the ugly singer.
The morning after their wedding he woke up, looked at his new wife, then shook her awake and said, "For heaven's sake, SING something!"
Art won out and he married the ugly singer.
The morning after their wedding he woke up, looked at his new wife, then shook her awake and said, "For heaven's sake, SING something!"
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Im am thinking a financially independent woman can play monopoly if she wants to.
It is an evil game, but a financially dependent woman wouldnt even be allowed to play it, she couldnt even pass go and collect $200...she'd just be stuck at home.
Home is fine if its just given to you and you dont have to pay a mortgage though....or rent.
But if you do pay rent, when you die you cant pass it on to your children. Its dead money.
It used to be that women couldnt even vote because they didnt 'own' property, nothing was in a wive's name, it all went under the husbands. So if she was divorced or widowed, she had nothing. The banks wouldnt recognise a woman. and because she didnt have a steady job that earned, they wouldnt lend her any money either. So she couldnt raise a mortgage, do any business, or make any investments.
I dont know why, but thats just the way it was. If you were given in marriage, you had a dowry and the man paid a bride price for you. It was pretty much slavery because the husband got free labour out of you, free sex, and could just treat you pretty much however he wanted...for life. Talk about bondage.
It is an evil game, but a financially dependent woman wouldnt even be allowed to play it, she couldnt even pass go and collect $200...she'd just be stuck at home.
Home is fine if its just given to you and you dont have to pay a mortgage though....or rent.
But if you do pay rent, when you die you cant pass it on to your children. Its dead money.
It used to be that women couldnt even vote because they didnt 'own' property, nothing was in a wive's name, it all went under the husbands. So if she was divorced or widowed, she had nothing. The banks wouldnt recognise a woman. and because she didnt have a steady job that earned, they wouldnt lend her any money either. So she couldnt raise a mortgage, do any business, or make any investments.
I dont know why, but thats just the way it was. If you were given in marriage, you had a dowry and the man paid a bride price for you. It was pretty much slavery because the husband got free labour out of you, free sex, and could just treat you pretty much however he wanted...for life. Talk about bondage.
world is divided into rich and poor pretty much
women who need to work because if they dont they starve
women who dont need to work because they have a rich husband (or benefactor)
as christians we arent really in either category, as Father provides for us, and we do the work He ordains for us to do.
If you live in a tropical paradise (as the original Eden was) you dont actually really need to earn any money at all. However most of us dont live in such a place and most people do go into debt at some stage in their lives (paying for education or a house) which they need to work to pay off.
In africa more women work than men. why, well not because men are lazy but because most of them are dead. Cos of war.
women who need to work because if they dont they starve
women who dont need to work because they have a rich husband (or benefactor)
as christians we arent really in either category, as Father provides for us, and we do the work He ordains for us to do.
If you live in a tropical paradise (as the original Eden was) you dont actually really need to earn any money at all. However most of us dont live in such a place and most people do go into debt at some stage in their lives (paying for education or a house) which they need to work to pay off.
In africa more women work than men. why, well not because men are lazy but because most of them are dead. Cos of war.
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See,
Everyone knows that I own the kitchen...I make the food...I loan it to my wife to cook for the two of us on occasion...I was very clear about this before we got married. (I made the bride's cake)
So we enter into married bliss...and things are going fairly smoothly. We help each other with various things and share chores around the house.
Until....
One day I was washing dishes and went to put some glasses up in the cupboard and some prankster had put them in upside right instead of upside down. When everyone knows they go in upside down.
So I straightened out the disaster and go on...
I don't think about it again for a couple of weeks until I go to do dishes again.... obviously my sweet little honey has done this. Is she angry at me? Is this some sort of twisted joke? Is she trying to get even with me because she didn't like my cooking? Is she trying to poison me in some way or just piss me off? I see us needing countless hours of marriage counseling to straighten this mess out and I just got married.....oh GOD! What kind of monster have I married? I've made a horrible mistake!
All this stuff goes through my head immediately....
But!
I talk to her about it and find out that being scared of bugs or dirt getting on the rim of the glasses she has always put them upside right...just like her mama.
Everyone knows that I own the kitchen...I make the food...I loan it to my wife to cook for the two of us on occasion...I was very clear about this before we got married. (I made the bride's cake)
So we enter into married bliss...and things are going fairly smoothly. We help each other with various things and share chores around the house.
Until....
One day I was washing dishes and went to put some glasses up in the cupboard and some prankster had put them in upside right instead of upside down. When everyone knows they go in upside down.
So I straightened out the disaster and go on...
I don't think about it again for a couple of weeks until I go to do dishes again.... obviously my sweet little honey has done this. Is she angry at me? Is this some sort of twisted joke? Is she trying to get even with me because she didn't like my cooking? Is she trying to poison me in some way or just piss me off? I see us needing countless hours of marriage counseling to straighten this mess out and I just got married.....oh GOD! What kind of monster have I married? I've made a horrible mistake!
All this stuff goes through my head immediately....
But!
I talk to her about it and find out that being scared of bugs or dirt getting on the rim of the glasses she has always put them upside right...just like her mama.
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I have no problem with a financially independent woman. Come on, it's 2022 now. There're more and more independent women, and they have the ability to make money. My wife is financially independent, and she manages her own finance account, which I am okay with, and we share our family account to pay our family payments. I think that even as Catholics, we should not imprison our minds. Marriage is each other's devotions, and if she has her dream and the abilities, she has the right to manage her money.
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T
Yes I think this is best....joint account and separate accounts but willingness to share funds when necessary. If a spouse wants to spend money on their own hobby, clothes, etc it should come for their own account. If everything comes from a joint account there too much discussion on expenditures and eventually arguments. This is all after setting aside money for giving, bills, retirement, etc of course.
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Dear spouse...I spent $1000 on books hope you dont mind
you what?!
Im sorry we wont be getting a new vaccuum cleaner this year.
all I can think about is endless discussions on what the money is going to be spent on...while for some people thats the exciting part of being married, I cant imagine it being fun for twenty years or more. I dunno.
When I worked in retail the boss was always going on about profit margins etc. Shop talk is rather dull.
you what?!
Im sorry we wont be getting a new vaccuum cleaner this year.
all I can think about is endless discussions on what the money is going to be spent on...while for some people thats the exciting part of being married, I cant imagine it being fun for twenty years or more. I dunno.
When I worked in retail the boss was always going on about profit margins etc. Shop talk is rather dull.
I think it didnt mean anything to me cos I didnt own the business, wasnt a shareholder, so it didnt really matter. Maybe he talks about that to his business partner (who isnt his wife)
not sure what happened to his ex wife who left who.. but I had gathered that business concerns split that family up.
not sure what happened to his ex wife who left who.. but I had gathered that business concerns split that family up.
I would like one that is and wants to support me and my ministry. That would be awesome.
But since that is not likely I would have to say I think that men should not be thinking about taking on the responsibility of a wife unless they can take care of her needs without her needing to work. If she wants to that is fine, but if it takes both to survive then the man is not ready to get married.
Since I am barely above tent status I think of myself as not qualified to consider a relationship with a woman and I keep myself closed to the idea.
If I did meet a wealthy woman that was retired (I am almost 60) that was godly of course, and wanted to support me and my ministry by sharing her wealth me in marriage I would consider such a thing, as I do not have a problem with accepting her generosity. I would not feel I had to earn money to support her to be a good husband in that situation, as we are in a different stage in life than young people.
But since that is not likely I would have to say I think that men should not be thinking about taking on the responsibility of a wife unless they can take care of her needs without her needing to work. If she wants to that is fine, but if it takes both to survive then the man is not ready to get married.
Since I am barely above tent status I think of myself as not qualified to consider a relationship with a woman and I keep myself closed to the idea.
If I did meet a wealthy woman that was retired (I am almost 60) that was godly of course, and wanted to support me and my ministry by sharing her wealth me in marriage I would consider such a thing, as I do not have a problem with accepting her generosity. I would not feel I had to earn money to support her to be a good husband in that situation, as we are in a different stage in life than young people.
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If I take a girl on a date. I expect to pay. I am traditional.
Her being financially independent would be attractive because it means she is financially responsible and that is important. Like staying out of debt.
If I marry her I expect to be the sole provider. I don't expect her to work for us to survive. If we don't have kids at home and she wants to work fine. If we have kids, she has to home school or I have to make enough money to hire a private home school teacher because I will not turn them over to the sodomite groomers.
If we are not going to have kids, she can work but I would not propose until I know that I can support her if she does not work.
If she does work I would like her to be able to use her money for whatever she wants and not for the normal bills that I pay for her.
She can buy me presents with it if she wants to, that would be ok.
I would make sure she has access to all the finances so that she knows that she IS financially independent if I get hit by a bus.
Her being financially independent would be attractive because it means she is financially responsible and that is important. Like staying out of debt.
If I marry her I expect to be the sole provider. I don't expect her to work for us to survive. If we don't have kids at home and she wants to work fine. If we have kids, she has to home school or I have to make enough money to hire a private home school teacher because I will not turn them over to the sodomite groomers.
If we are not going to have kids, she can work but I would not propose until I know that I can support her if she does not work.
If she does work I would like her to be able to use her money for whatever she wants and not for the normal bills that I pay for her.
She can buy me presents with it if she wants to, that would be ok.
I would make sure she has access to all the finances so that she knows that she IS financially independent if I get hit by a bus.
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