Vaccine Mandate For Me 🤔

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,539
113
#1
(So my question of legality is how can Johnson & Johnson and Moderna be mandated if they have yet to be FDA approved? Also if the Pfizer vaccine having two products that are legally distinct with one being FDA approved ( Comirnaty ) how can the current available Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine be mandated if it is still technically under emergency use?)

The FDA accelerated its review process to speed up the release of COVID-19 vaccines. The regulator proceeded to grant emergency use authorization to Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) vaccines. In August 2021, the FDA granted full approval to the Pfizer vaccine.

The currently available COVID-19 vaccines (Janssen/Johnson & Johnson, Moderna) are only authorized for use under the EUA Statute
and have no general approval under federal law. Thus, the administration of such vaccines cannot be mandatory under the plain text of the EUA Statute.

The recent FDA biologics license application (BLA) approval of the product
COMIRNATY, COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA, manufactured by BioNTech Manufacturing GmbH, does not change the EUA status of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine that has been available under EUA since December 23, 2020. According to the EUA extension letter issued by the FDA to Pfizer on August 23, 2021, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and BioNTech’s
COMIRNATY, COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA “are legally distinct” products.

Moreover, the now “approved” COMIRNATY vaccine cannot be distributed for use until BioNTech submits “final container samples of the product in final containers together with protocols showing results of all applicable tests” and BioNTech receives “a notification of release from the Director, Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER).”

Thus, it is not clear when (or if) any employees will have access to the “approved” COMIRNATY vaccine, leaving all (or at least the vast majority of)
employees who elect to receive the “Pfizer” vaccine pursuant to company mandatory vaccine policy to receive a dose of the current stock of Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine still being administered
subject to EUA rules.

The Comirnaty vaccine received full FDA approval, but in the FDA documents they describe the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine as “legally distinct” from the Comirnaty vaccine.

The following summarizes the current status of the Pfizer-BioNTech shots:

1. All existing Pfizer vials (in the hundreds of millions), remain under the federal
Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) (meaning people have the “option to accept or
refuse”);

2. The third or “booster” Pfizer shot is identical to the above and remains under the EUA
with limited use to certain categories of people;

I have requested a religious accommodation but preparing to fight for it with the EEO and groups like Liberty Council if denied.

Employees may have religious accommodation requests stating their sincerely held religious beliefs injecting any of the three currently available COVID-19 vaccines would be a sin and a violation of their religious beliefs because they are manufactured and produced with, tested on, or otherwise developmentally connected to aborted fetal cell lines. Many employers have responded to employee submissions with intrusive and irrelevant questions about employees’ past personal health decisions and the theological bases for those decisions, or demands that employees vet their religious beliefs about COVID-19 vaccines with a third party to justify their accommodation requests. The premises of these questions—that an employee’s current
request for religious accommodation must be consistent with the employees’ prior health decisions and religious understandings, or must be acknowledged by a person other than the employee—are legally invalid premises for deciding religious accommodation requests, and
any denial based on such premises violates Title VII.

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from discriminating against its employees on the basis of their sincerely held religious beliefs. See 42 U.S.C. §2000e-2(a) (“It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer . . . to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his
compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin”);
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#2
(So my question of legality is how can Johnson & Johnson and Moderna be mandated if they have yet to be FDA approved? Also if the Pfizer vaccine having two products that are legally distinct with one being FDA approved ( Comirnaty ) how can the current available Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine be mandated if it is still technically under emergency use?)

The FDA accelerated its review process to speed up the release of COVID-19 vaccines. The regulator proceeded to grant emergency use authorization to Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) vaccines. In August 2021, the FDA granted full approval to the Pfizer vaccine.

The currently available COVID-19 vaccines (Janssen/Johnson & Johnson, Moderna) are only authorized for use under the EUA Statute
and have no general approval under federal law. Thus, the administration of such vaccines cannot be mandatory under the plain text of the EUA Statute.

The recent FDA biologics license application (BLA) approval of the product
COMIRNATY, COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA, manufactured by BioNTech Manufacturing GmbH, does not change the EUA status of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine that has been available under EUA since December 23, 2020. According to the EUA extension letter issued by the FDA to Pfizer on August 23, 2021, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and BioNTech’s
COMIRNATY, COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA “are legally distinct” products.

Moreover, the now “approved” COMIRNATY vaccine cannot be distributed for use until BioNTech submits “final container samples of the product in final containers together with protocols showing results of all applicable tests” and BioNTech receives “a notification of release from the Director, Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER).”

Thus, it is not clear when (or if) any employees will have access to the “approved” COMIRNATY vaccine, leaving all (or at least the vast majority of)
employees who elect to receive the “Pfizer” vaccine pursuant to company mandatory vaccine policy to receive a dose of the current stock of Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine still being administered
subject to EUA rules.

The Comirnaty vaccine received full FDA approval, but in the FDA documents they describe the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine as “legally distinct” from the Comirnaty vaccine.

The following summarizes the current status of the Pfizer-BioNTech shots:

1. All existing Pfizer vials (in the hundreds of millions), remain under the federal
Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) (meaning people have the “option to accept or
refuse”);

2. The third or “booster” Pfizer shot is identical to the above and remains under the EUA
with limited use to certain categories of people;

I have requested a religious accommodation but preparing to fight for it with the EEO and groups like Liberty Council if denied.

Employees may have religious accommodation requests stating their sincerely held religious beliefs injecting any of the three currently available COVID-19 vaccines would be a sin and a violation of their religious beliefs because they are manufactured and produced with, tested on, or otherwise developmentally connected to aborted fetal cell lines. Many employers have responded to employee submissions with intrusive and irrelevant questions about employees’ past personal health decisions and the theological bases for those decisions, or demands that employees vet their religious beliefs about COVID-19 vaccines with a third party to justify their accommodation requests. The premises of these questions—that an employee’s current
request for religious accommodation must be consistent with the employees’ prior health decisions and religious understandings, or must be acknowledged by a person other than the employee—are legally invalid premises for deciding religious accommodation requests, and
any denial based on such premises violates Title VII.

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from discriminating against its employees on the basis of their sincerely held religious beliefs. See 42 U.S.C. §2000e-2(a) (“It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer . . . to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his
compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin”);
At my job, they are saying they will review exemptions quickly. If an exemption is denied, people will have two weeks to get the first shot. Then I believe suspension for two weeks, and then termination. And yes, a lot of questions on the religious exemption form.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#3
I dont know sorry, you might want to ask someone with medical expertise and employment law on that one.

If you are an employee and you dont want to be vaccinated yet your employer wants you to so you will be able to work then you have a choice...

get vaccinated so you can continue to work with possibility of being exposed to the virus
or dont get vaccinated and work at home in isolation but if you cant do that, then you might need to quit that job

If you are self-employed you can do what you like. No boss telling you what to do.

I cant recall ever being forced to get a vaccination or pressure to by both my employers, whether it was flu or covid-19. The flu shot was not free , and you had to do it in your own time but you did get reimbursed.

It was my choice to get the flu shot since I work with children and I dont want to put them or myself at risk...though I had a mild cold, a week off work was permissable. Flu is worse than a cold though.

covid shot since it is freely available nobody has to pay. Ive had both jabs. Its was fine, and nobody forced me. You might be a little sore after but it goes away. It offers immunity. It was pfizer. I dont know about the other kinds of vaccines but most people who got it were fine and didnt get covid, and even if they did they recovered.

I was only asked about being vaccinated by employer once and if people did not answer it was just assumed they werent.

If you dont want to be vaccinated that is your choice but you might have to weigh up with ability to work in event of an outbreak or whether you stay in isolation. Also the vaccine may not be offered later on for free youd have to pay hundreds of dollars to get it esp when supplies run out.

I dont know what the 'sincere religious belief' would be as its not a mark as nobody can tell you have it except for you. You could say you got vaccinated even if you didnt, I suppose, but that would be LYING so, well its all on you if you do that.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#4
The other thing is travel
if you are unvacinnated you might not be able to travel, but if you dont plan on going anywhere then thats not a problem.

Othewise you should get tested before you go anywhere as your destination may be covid free and THEY do not want an outbreak any more than you do. if the test is negative you are fine, but if its postive at the very least you should stay home

be responsible and dont spread it any further. I mean use your common sense. I am sure you have a brain. Nobody likes this virus.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,539
113
#5
At my job, they are saying they will review exemptions quickly. If an exemption is denied, people will have two weeks to get the first shot. Then I believe suspension for two weeks, and then termination. And yes, a lot of questions on the religious exemption form.
According to what questions they are, your employer may be breaking the law.

We if denied have to re-educated on the safety of the vaccine, then next step, suspension, then termination.

But it is not clear yet what happens if we go to the EEO to fight the verdict.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#6
According to what questions they are, your employer may be breaking the law.

We if denied have to re-educated on the safety of the vaccine, then next step, suspension, then termination.

But it is not clear yet what happens if we go to the EEO to fight the verdict.
Law does not seem to matter. Only rules, dictates, decrees, and mandates.

This is from the very clear International law :

the Nuremburg Code:
"The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. "
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,539
113
#9

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#10
I have applied for exemption so trying to avoid all 3. If I run out of options and forced to get a shot Im looking at my options to file for discrimination charges based on religion. If that is successful, then at least it could set precedent for other employees.
Kindly familiarize yourself with the options that have already been published.
How Americans can resist coronavirus shot mandates – a comprehensive guide
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/r...-vaccines/?utm_source=urgent&utm_campaign=usa

There is also one for Canadians at the same site (since the laws are different)
 

SteveEpperson

Junior Member
May 12, 2018
552
222
43
#11
I have requested a religious accommodation but preparing to fight for it with the EEO and groups like Liberty Council if denied.
I wish you the best in that. And I will pray for you with all my might.

I believe they are circumventing the law by making it an OSHA rule as far as the legality. It's kinda like rules for forklift battery handling. A lot of our civil liberties are dissolved within these big bureaucracies.

Think about how intrusive a urinalysis test is. But for a lot of jobs, it's standard procedure now.

I'm optimistic that the Lord will help you find a way out.

But unfortunately, I think our civil liberties will continue to erode further as we continue through to the end times. :coffee:
 

SteveEpperson

Junior Member
May 12, 2018
552
222
43
#12
Law does not seem to matter. Only rules, dictates, decrees, and mandates.
You have a really good point here. And I know I should be posting this in the conspiracy forum.

But I do believe there is a fourth branch of government in the US. And it's run by unelected officials who can circumvent the constitution by merely making rules instead of laws.
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#13
At my job it is unlikely reasonable accommodations will be provided even if an exemption is granted, so I am not sure what will happen then. A vaccine would be required mostly likely even without a mandate. All of our work leads to an international trip every eight or so months where we review information on-site. The person who works on the project must go, since no one else would be aware of the details. My last trip was to Guatemala in March 2020. Since then we have been doing these tasks virtually which is not as practical. My point here is that reasonable accommodations may not be granted depending on the job.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,888
4,539
113
#14
I wish you the best in that. And I will pray for you with all my might.

I believe they are circumventing the law by making it an OSHA rule as far as the legality. It's kinda like rules for forklift battery handling. A lot of our civil liberties are dissolved within these big bureaucracies.

Think about how intrusive a urinalysis test is. But for a lot of jobs, it's standard procedure now.

I'm optimistic that the Lord will help you find a way out.

But unfortunately, I think our civil liberties will continue to erode further as we continue through to the end times. :coffee:
Thank you. My goal is to slow it down, not make it easy, and try to help others do the same.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#15
i don't recall anti-vaccination being a core doctrine of Christianity, like the JW tenets against receiving blood transfusions or certain fringe cults rejection of any & all medical procedures.
so my question would be whether you are falsely claiming 'religious exemption' for something that's actually motivated by secular political concerns.


the language in the Nuremberg code is about experimentation, not vaccination against disease. you're not being pressured into taking part in clinical trials -- and above all you technically always have the option of getting a different job, regardless of the financial hardship that may incur.

while you may be able to find an exemption to your employer's request through these channels i'm not convinced that what you're doing is strictly honorable.
 
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
526
113
#16
i don't recall anti-vaccination being a core doctrine of Christianity, like the JW tenets against receiving blood transfusions or certain fringe cults rejection of any & all medical procedures.
so my question would be whether you are falsely claiming 'religious exemption' for something that's actually motivated by secular political concerns.


the language in the Nuremberg code is about experimentation, not vaccination against disease. you're not being pressured into taking part in clinical trials -- and above all you technically always have the option of getting a different job, regardless of the financial hardship that may incur.

while you may be able to find an exemption to your employer's request through these channels i'm not convinced that what you're doing is strictly honorable.

"Experimental vaccine" qualifies as experimental medicine, yes?

And a different job? How can you if nearly every job will be moving to require vaccination? Even remote work jobs?

Instead of speculating how some Christians that reject this are "insincere" because you don't understand something, why not look at the insincerity of mandating the jab in order to work. Always challenge things that don't make sense.

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." - 1 Thessalonians 5:21 KJV
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#17
the language in the Nuremberg code is about experimentation, not vaccination against disease. you're not being pressured into taking part in clinical trials -- and above all you technically always have the option of getting a different job, regardless of the financial hardship that may incur.
The language speaks for itself. It doesn’t need any interpretation like the one you posted.

Here is one of the pertinent passages again:

the Nuremburg Code:
"The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. "
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#18
The language speaks for itself. It doesn’t need any interpretation like the one you posted.

Here is one of the pertinent passages again:

the Nuremburg Code:
"The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. "
Yes it speaks for itself. A person is called a "subject" when they are in a clinical experiment and called a "patient" when they are receiving a medical procedure.
Clearly the context of the Nuremberg trials was experimentation on human beings who didn't have knowledge they were being experimented on and had no opportunity to consent or refuse.
We aren't talking about vaccination trials in unconscious people or secretly exposing people to agent orange or slipping LSD into soldiers meals.
We are talking about essentially a flu shot, and no one is holding a gun to your head like they did in Nazi death camps.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
#19
And a different job? How can you if nearly every job will be moving to require vaccination? Even remote work jobs?
Pure conspiratorial speculation.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#20
Yes it speaks for itself. A person is called a "subject" when they are in a clinical experiment and called a "patient" when they are receiving a medical procedure.
I don’t see “clinical experiment “ there at all.
Clearly the context of the Nuremberg trials was experimentation on human beings who didn't have knowledge they were being experimented on and had no opportunity to consent or refuse.
Yes. The WHOLE point is to not be coerced in ANY way to have something done to, in this case injected, into your body without your informed consent. Can you even list every ingredient in the vaccine they injected into your body? I can tell you every ingredient, mandated by law, that’s in the cereal I had this morning.
Or are you just trusting the good intentions and faith of the drug companies and government that EVERYTHING they are injecting in you is for your good?


We aren't talking about vaccination trials in unconscious people or secretly exposing people to agent orange or slipping LSD into soldiers meals.
We are talking about essentially a flu shot, and no one is holding a gun to your head like they did in Nazi death camps.
Again, how do you know every ingredient in the vaccine, how it reacts, with other things you may be taking, whether you may be allergic to one of them?

Flu shots are not government mandated or coerced.
And they ABSOLUTELY are not mRNA injections.

Talk some Aussies about concentration camps, and forced imprisonment they are calling quarantine.