Church cults

I had a workmate who was involved with christadelphians. He was really into scriptures but not so great with the prayer. He would always want to discuss scriptures with me but they would only be the ones he learned and he was a bit obssessed with end times.

I never quite got what he believed though and whether it was a full blown cult.

we never had a jonestown type cult tragedy in nz but there was a group that had a similar settlement called Gloriavale. I think they broke away from the exclusive brethren. They were on the news for some sex scandal, and they lived like the amish in that they didnt let anyone out of their community and wore old fashioned clothes.

They are still active.
You can google them.

I think if anybody wants to leave they can...its horrible to think that there are people belonging to that group who are being abused and believing that is the way christians are meant to live.

The fifth episode on William Branham is up at Cultish. I thought it was going to be about Jim Jones but that will be in the next one, Part 6. Part 5 is about Branham's connection with the Latter Rain Movement and the so-called restoration of the the offices of Apostle and Prophet. Today we know this as the New Apostolic Reformation. It also talks about Branham's connection with an obscure Armenian prophet, Avak Hakobian, the Kardashians and Hollywood. Very interesting stuff.

https://thecultishshow.com/podcast/william-branham-and-the-latter-rain

The greatest born of womb will have you looking, and waiting for God outside you, with nothing new under the sun that repeats.


The natural mind will repeat, look and wait for outside observation the greatest born by womb, Saul types where great at reading OT as secular history leaving the greatest born by women blind, John Baptist also blind about God in them.

Matt 11:11Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Luke 17:20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you..

Phil 2:5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Paul who was Saul was like John Baptist and looked for God outside like we all have done until? Not by man, nor can we boost about free waking/son of Gods from inside when ready and not with work our study. Neville Goddard correct about what is God in you. Imagination in man can be good and evil, so to Judge against others will return on you.

Paul when waken from Saul beliefs knew OT was Allegory! Gal 4:24Which things are an allegory:

Ecclesiastes 3:15:

The “natural man” cannot grasp that, for to him reality is based only on the evidence of the senses. The man of reason could justify the verse’s end, saying if it has any meaning then the writer must mean recurrence. The sun comes every day and the moon completes its cycle and the seasons come and go. If we took a picture of the universe today, the scientists can compute how long it will take to return to this point in the picture. So the intellectual man could justify the verse; but that is not what is meant, for it is addressed not to the man of reason or the man of sense, but to the man of Imagination. What is it all about? “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been, and God seeks what has been driven away.”

Jim Jones reminds me of the Elmer Gantry guy in the movie

Charismatic preacher/small town huckster makes it big.

Ya know, I've heard about Elmer Gantry but never watched the movie or read the book. My library has the book so I think I will check it out. Thanks.

apparently the movie was not allowed to be shown in some states as it was thought it would offend some churchgoers. And the novel was banned too in some cities upon publication.

Christadelphians

"2. That Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God [not "God the Son"], begotten of the virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit, without the intervention of man, and afterwards anointed with the same Spirit, without measure, at his baptism. (Isa. 7:14; 11:2; 41:1; 21:1; Matt. 1:18-25; 3:16-17; Luke 1:26-35; John 3:34; 7:16; 8:26-28; 14:10-24; Acts 2:22-24; Gal.4:4). "
http://orlandounamendedchristadelph...mended_Christadelphian_Statement_of_Faith.pdf

"
How could this possibly be true if Jesus is co-equal with God. The doctrine of the Trinity is false; God is one, not three; and Jesus Christ is His only begotten son.

Concerning The Title: God.

But some may draw attention to the fact that the title of God is sometimes applied to Jesus Christ. For example, when Thomas saw the risen Christ, he exclaimed: "My Lord and my God!"

Does the use of such titles in relation to Jesus prove that he is the second person of a Trinity.

We answer, No, on the grounds that if it did, it would present a contradiction to many passages which show that he is not co- equal with the Father. In addition the same titles are used for angels and men who stood in a special relationship to the Creator.

This may sound confusing at first sight, but it is not really so. Consider. An agent goes forth in the name of the one who employs him; the representative of a firm merges his individuality in the name of the company he represents. On the same basis, angels and men used God's name when they went forth as His accredited agents.

The Lord himself reminded the Jews of this when they accused him of using the name of God blasphemously. He replied:

"Is it not written in your Law, 'I said, Ye are gods?' If He (God) called them 'gods' unto whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken (i.e. -- you cannot refute this fact), why say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, 'Thou blasphemest,' because I said, I am the son of God?" (John 10:34-35).

The Lord was quoting from Psalm 82, where the divinely appointed priests and elders of Israel are given the title of "Gods" because they acted and spake in the name of God. The fact that they used the title and applied it to themselves, did not make them part of the Godhead, anymore than it did Jesus when it was applied to him. That is the point of his reasoning with the Jews. He made it perfectly clear that lie was not claiming equality with the Father.

Those "to whom the word of God came," such as the priests in Israel, derived their authority from God, judged on His behalf, and were His accredited representatives among the people. They were "Gods" by deputy (2 Chron. 19:6). To stand before the priests was to stand "before the Lord" (Deut. 19:17), so that Paul taught: "Though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, to us there is but one God, the Father . . . and one Lord, Jesus Christ" (1 Cor. 8:6). The "gods" in heaven and on earth besides the Father are His angels and rulers, who, in consequence assumed the title. In Exodus 7:1; 4:16, Moses is called "God," and in Joshua 22:22, the Father is described as a "God of gods and Lord of lords."

Any humble believer can attain unto that high and lofty title in a more complete sense than did the mortal rulers of Israel in ages past who though called Gods, nevertheless "died like men" (Ps. 82:6-7). Believers are described as "heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ" (Rom. 8:17), rejoicing in hope "of the glory of God" (Rom. 5:2). Peter taught that they can become "partakers of divine nature," (2 Pet. 1:4), and Christ promised that he would "write" upon those who overcome "the name of my God" (Rev. 3:12). If mortal man can attain unto the glory, nature and name of God, surely the Lord Jesus can claim the privilege of the title "God" without teaching that he is part of the Trinity.

The angels also spake and acted in the name of God, without claiming co-equality with Him. There was one placed over the affairs of Israel, concerning whom, God told Moses:

"Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not, for he will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in him" (Exod. 23:20-21).

That angel spake and acted as God, but it would be folly to claim that he was part of the Trinity. In the Age to come, the faithful will be "equal unto the angels" (Luke 20:36), and will go forth in the name of God.

The Holy Spirit.

This is frequently translated Holy Ghost in the Bible, but should always be rendered Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the energy or power of God by which all creation came into being and is sustained. Whilst God dwells personally and corporeally in the heavens, His spirit is diffused throughout the universe (Ps. 139:7-12), and is the substratum of all creation (Acts 17:25).


"
http://www.christadelphia.org/books/keystudy16.php

"The angel told her that God's power would cause her to conceive a son.

...

Are God and Jesus the same?

We have seen that the Bible teaches there is only one God and Jesus Christ is His son. Is it possible that Jesus and God are both made of the same substance, or are both co-equal and co-eternal?

The following tables highlight some of the differences between Jesus and God, which have been recorded for us in God's Word:

These differences demonstrate that God and Jesus are two unique, different beings.

The change in belief is summarized as follows:

God cannot be tempted
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted by God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, nor does he tempt any man:" (James 1:13)
Jesus was tempted
"Because himself hath suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted." (Hebrews 2:18)
"For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses; but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:14-15)
God cannot be seen
"dwelling in inapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see." (1Timothy 6:16)
Jesus was seen
"This is now the third time that Jesus showed himself to his disciples, after he was raised from the dead." (John 21:14)
God knows everything
"Can anyone hide himself in secret places so that I will not see him? says the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth?" (Jeremiah 23:24)
Jesus learnt
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." (Luke 2:52)
"Though he was a Son, yet he learned obedience by the things which he suffered;" (Hebrews 5:8)
"But of that day and that hour no one knows, neither the angels which are in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Mark 13:32)
God cannot die
"See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with me... I live for ever." (Deuteronomy 32:39-40)
"Who only hath immortality" (1 Timothy 6:16)
Jesus died
"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures." (1Corinthians 15:3)
"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen;" (Revelation 1:18)
God is subject to no one
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another," (Isaiah 42:8)
Jesus is subject to God
"my Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of woman is man; and the head of Christ is God." (1 Corinthians 11:3)
"Then the son also will be subject to Him that put all things under him" (1Corinthians 15:28)
God is everlasting
"Now unto the King, eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever" (1 Timothy 1:17)
Jesus was created
"But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law." (Galatians 4:4)
"... You are my Son, today I have begotten you" (Hebrews 1:5)
God is all powerful
"Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" (Jeremiah 32:27)
"Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker; "Ask me of things to come concerning My sons, and concerning the work of My hands, you command Me. I have made the earth, and created man on it. It was I - My hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host I have commanded." (Isaiah 45:11-12)
Jesus is not all powerful
"Then answered Jesus and said to them; Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what he sees the Father do: for whatever he does, the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all things that himself does" (John 5:19-20)
"Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with vehement crys and tears to Him who was able to save him from death, and was heard because of his godly fear;" (Hebrews 5:7-8)
God is Perfect
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48)
Jesus had to be made perfect
"And having been perfected, he became the author of eternal salvation" (Hebrews 5:9)
"Why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is, God" (Luke 18:19)
God does not change
"For I am the LORD, I do not change not; therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed." (Malachi 3:6)
Jesus did change
"You (God) made him a little lower than the angels, You crowned him with glory and honour, and set him over the work of Your hands" (Hebrews 2:7).
God has no god
"Thus says the LORD... I am the first, and I am the last. besides me there is no God.... Is there a God besides me? Indeed there is no other rock; I know not one." (Isaiah 44:6,8)
Jesus has a God
"Do not cling to me; for I am not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren, and say to them, I am ascending to my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)
God is not a man
"God is not a man, that He should lie; nor a son of man, that he should repent: Has he said, and will not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not make it good?" (Numbers 23:19)
Jesus is a man
"Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves also know:" (Acts 2:22)
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" (1 Timothy 2:5).



"http://www.christadelphia.org/pamphlet/p_onegod.php#4

I posted an informational thread on the Christadelhians here: https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...tadelphians-came-up-in-another-thread.201559/

That thread is for information only, so if anyone reads this thread they can go there for information.

so what they think Jesus was not part of the trinity? Or just the Father and Son are not related or what.

I never really got what my workmate was going on about. I did have an inkling that a christdelphian wouldnt believe that Jesus is their Lord and saviour but cant be sure what they really believe, they big on quoting scriptures but lacking any spiritual discernment maybe...seing they dont think the Holy Spirit is a person or part of the trinity but in everything, like a hindu would believe.

I dont know if they (christadelphians) do any mindcontrol or chicken guts tricks like peoples temple did though. But they still pretty big on end times doom and gloom.

Though its the JWS that believe they world is going to blow up and they are the 144,000. They knock on peoples doors but its only the fancy homes they want to possesess one day after the apocalypse.

Christadephains are Arians in Theology similar to JWs. In fact, the watchtower published Emphatic Diaglott New Testament by Benjamin Wilson, who was a Christadelpian. . They teach that Jesus is only the Son of God in name only. They do not believe Jesus is God. They teach that the Holy Spirit is just a force of God, not the third person of the Trinity.
Something else that makes them stand out is they deny that Satan is a fallen angel. But, is God's assigned adversary angel to humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Thomas_(Christadelphian)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emphatic_Diaglott

They believe that the spiritual gifts like healing cease to exist with the death of the last Apostle. They have a form of mind control during indoctrination. They have rules of isolation to maintain religious boundaries.

The founder of their cult had beliefs like modern Atheists in denying supranational events.

Well the belief of the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceasing with the death of the apostles is from a huge range of churches that are definitely not cults.

This doctrine spans different denominations and is in non denominational churches. But yea .. the definition of a cult may not have been fully covered in this thread

The final installment of the William Branham podcast is up at Cultish.

Part 6: William Branham & The Road To Jonestown

will listen later, I didnt know he had a connection with Jonestown

Wonder if he did the chicken guts thing too.

I remember reading one thing about the early life of Jim Jones - he went to a lot of different churches as a young boy, but he also attended those 'holy roller' or pentecostal type churches and he would go walk down the aisle every single week to 'get saved'. You know how some churches make you walk in front of everyone to receive Jesus? Well he did that EVERY single week, over and over.

I guess this is where some churches decided on a rule like 'once saved, always saved' to stop the same people from walking up every time.

I can tell from this post that you do not understand the intent or use of tongues (few really do).

But I also suspect trying to educate you on it would be a waste of time. No offense.

There were faith healers before WWII, but it was after WWII that this phenomenon really took off with the healing revivals, and William Branham was in the forefront.

Branham called his "gospel" the Gospel of Divine Healing. He believed he was God's special messenger sent to preach it. He preached Christ crucified, but the majority of his teaching was on divine healing. In other words, if you didn't accept divine healing you don't accept the rest of it either. Is it any wonder people talked themselves into believing they could be healed by a shyster like Branham? After all, if they didn't get healed it was their own fault for doubting Christ.

Branham's MO was to tell people that healings weren't instantaneous, but took time. By the time people realized they hadn't been healed, or were dead, Branham was long gone (and with their $$$). It's unbelievable that this is still a common tactic of so-called faith healers today.