The Second Coming of Christ and the First Resurrection.

Just a question.

It seems to me that 1 Thessalonians 5:9 tells us that God has not appointed us to wrath, as believers in Christ.

And Zephaniah 1:14-15 and Luke 21:23 appear to be saying that the time of Great Tribulation is a time of God's wrath.

How, then, are we going to go through the Great Tribulation, as believers in Christ?

1Th 5:9, For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Zep 1:14, The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zep 1:15, That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Luk 21:23, But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Therefore encourage one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18

The Body of Christ/His Church eagerly awaits the Return of our Lord Jesus Christ. When He comes the dead in Christ will rise first.

Can we find this Resurrection spoken of by the Lord in Revelation?

Yes, David; here it is.

Revelation 20:4-5

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received hismark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Therefore encourage one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18

The Body of Christ/His Church eagerly awaits the Return of our Lord Jesus Christ. When He comes the dead in Christ will rise first.

Can we find this Resurrection spoken of by the Lord in Revelation?

Is this it?

Revelation 20:4-5

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received hismark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Notice how our Lord makes it crystal clear that the Saints who died as a result of refusing the Mark are directly connected to the First Resurrection.

Since our Lord said that the Resurrection occurs at His Second Coming (1 Thess ch 4) and He confirms this Resurrection in Revelation chapter 20, it becomes impossible for the rapture to occur anytime before this event.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Therefore encourage one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18

The Body of Christ/His Church eagerly awaits the Return of our Lord Jesus Christ. When He comes the dead in Christ will rise first.

Can we find this Resurrection spoken of by the Lord in Revelation?

ABSOLUTELY - God's Word is PURE and easy for His Children to understand - no confusion here at all or when you compare all the Scripture relating to the Resurruction and His Second Coming.

Is there some relevance here ?

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, (2)

and now is,(1) when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, (2) in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬


What I mean is is there a difference in those who are dead on Christ and those who have been given life in Christ ? It seems we don’t have to be in this judgement

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬

if we subject ourselves to his judgement now so is there a difference in the living in Christ

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. “



and the dead in Christ who come out of thier graves and are judged by their deeds not having remission of sins like these folks who are alive after they pass through the world and didn’t receive the mark of the beast and worship false gods

“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9-10, 14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I’m actually asking your thoughts about this because I always respect your thinking as a brother is there something about accepting the gospel now while we are alive on the earth , that keeps us from being those that are dead and later called out of the grave ?

Here is what I posted in the last thread. The question of it remains.

The relevance of Revelation (and all Scripture) is so important to our Lord that He said this:

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book. Rev 22 18-19

His Second Coming is the Climatic Event of VICTORY that the Creation has been eagerly longing for, which is the First Resurrection.
For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. Romans 8:19

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

“Where, O Death, is your victory?
Where, O Death, is your sting?”

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!
1 Cor 15

yes scriptire is definately important for sure if we look at mans creation is there a body and a living spirit ?

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And the death of man and what happens sort of the opposite as creation the dust reverts and the spirit returns

“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so what I was asking is do you think there is a spiritual resurrection here

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Even though thier flesh is going to die ,


“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so when the body dies doesn’t the living spirit go to the lord if it’s been resurrected in Christ ?

““Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It seems as if there are two deaths and two resurrections one that’s for the body and another for the spirit.

We all understand the physical death of our body , and then there’s a second death for the soul

“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so what I was inquiring about is that first resurrection

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: ( John 5:22-24)

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,

and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,

neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we have passed from death to life haven’t we partaken of the first resurrection which is spiritual and when we leave our body aren’t we going to be alive with him in heaven until he restore the earth and raises our body ?

Notice how our Lord makes it crystal clear that the Saints who died as a result of refusing the Mark are directly connected to the First Resurrection.

Since our Lord said that the Resurrection occurs at His Second Coming (1 Thess ch 4) and He confirms this Resurrection in Revelation chapter 20, it becomes impossible for the rapture to occur anytime before this event.

There would have to be a spiritual resurrection first and foremost.
Without such we could not be partakers in the Divine nature of Christ and we would still be children of wrath.

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
1 Peter 1

Blasphemy. God will never yell. God has a voiceless voice. You do for you. Change your ways. Stop with the Jesus idolitary, seems a bit harlot. Jesus points you to god. The teachings are back in the old one, Jesus tells us how to act them out. Do not conflate. And it is not Jesus coming back, it is another Messiah representing God this time. Jesus did his job 2 000 years ago. God sends another this time, another name, or you would not recognize him. The return is the return of God. It is not very complicated if you have read the book, or is a novice who read 35% of the book as me. I like verses in thessalonians, never read the entire book yet. Verses seem very good.

As 1 Thessalonians 5:9 states, "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." This verse is constantly used by the pre-trib rapture people but they are taking it out of context. Wrath is what awaits those who do not have salvation.

Now, look at 2 Thessalonians 1:5-9. Starting at vs5 Paul says they are worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering." Vs6, For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, vs7, and to give "rest/relief" to you who are afflicted and to us as well "WHEN" (the question is when do we get rest or relief)? the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, vs8, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus."

Verse 9, And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, vs10, WHEN He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, (what day?) and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed." At Matthew 24:3 the disciples ask Jesus a very specific question? "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and the END OF THE WORLD/AGE?"

Here's my question and I think it's a reasonable question? If the rapture of the Church comes before the tribulation would one not think to themselves, "Finally we can rest and really live?" After all, were going to be having the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb." In the meantime, all hell is breaking loose on the earth including Christians and here we are enjoying this celebration. To me this does not make sense.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

ABSOLUTELY always believe the Word that declares the Body of Christ/His Church/His Elect are NOT under God's wrath - AMEN

Some people confuse tribulation with the wrath of God - if this were true then Jesus told a lie - which we know He NEVER did.

I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!” John 16:33

As 1 Thessalonians 5:9 states, "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." This verse is constantly used by the pre-trib rapture people but they are taking it out of context. Wrath is what awaits those who do not have salvation.

Now, look at 2 Thessalonians 1:5-9. Starting at vs5 Paul says they are worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering." Vs6, For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, vs7, and to give "rest/relief" to you who are afflicted and to us as well "WHEN" (the question is when do we get rest or relief)? the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, vs8, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus."

Verse 9, And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, vs10, WHEN He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, (what day?) and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed." At Matthew 24:3 the disciples ask Jesus a very specific question? "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and the END OF THE WORLD/AGE?"

Here's my question and I think it's a reasonable question? If the rapture of the Church comes before the tribulation would one not think to themselves, "Finally we can rest and really live?" After all, were going to be having the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb." In the meantime, all hell is breaking loose on the earth including Christians and here we are enjoying this celebration. To me this does not make sense.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto