Saved by Water

please read the posts on Oneness Pentecostalism because it seems that is what we are actually dealing with

as such, that explains why no matter what you post or what scripture is indicated to illustrate the error by wansvic, you will never receive any sort of acknowledgment and you can see how Matthew 28:19 is twisted and summarily dismissed

we should stop falling for this baptismal regeneration sidebar because the real case is being made for Oneness doctrine

Thanks for the quick review of this theology.

Given all the verses in the gospels where Jesus prays to His Father in heaven and His Father in heaven speaks when Jesus was baptized and on the mount of transfiguration, we must conclude this from the "oneness" nonsense:

1. Jesus is schizophrenic and His 2 personalities (Father and Son) talk with each other.
2. Jesus is quite the ventriloquist since everyone who witnessed His baptism and on the mount of transfiguration heard the voice from heaven. Many said they heard thunder. I've never heard any ventriloquist sound like thunder!

So, since neither #1 or #2 can be fact, the fact is that this "Oneness" movement is heretical to the core.

It is easy to confirm whether what I have presented is true. Search the bible for each water baptism reference. The answer is staring everyone in the face. But sadly people will still refuse to accept the truth.

The apostles and others water baptized in the name of Jesus. Do you deny this truth as seen in scripture? I have included the scriptures for your reference:

Acts 2:38-39 (Jewish)
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans-half jewish-half gentile)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


Acts 10:44-48 (Gentiles)
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.



Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Your statement that the Holy Spirit indwells WHEN a person believes in Christ is debunked by Paul's own question to the Ephesus disciples: "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" Please seriously consider why Paul would ask such a question if in fact people receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believe? Consider as well that scripture confirms that a person that does not have the Spirit is not accepted of God. (Romans 8:9)

Upon review of Acts 19:1-6, and as seen mirrored in other biblical records, it is clear what is required of everyone. Notice specifically that those who had been water baptized by John had to actually be re-baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus.

In Acts 19:1-6, Paul informs the group that they must believe in Jesus and be rebaptized in his name. He then lays hands upon them and they receive the Holy Ghost.

It is important to take notice that the angel that appeared to Cornelius actually told him that Peter would tell him what HE MUST DO. (Acts 10:5-6) Peter's saving message included the command for the group to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Notice Peter's statement to the Jewish leaders that it was not his place to stand in God's way. Or, as the KJV states, who was he to withstand God. What did Peter actually mean by his statement in the Acts 11 record you quote, specifically verse 17? It is obvious what Peter meant upon review of what occurred after Peter saw God fill the group with His Spirit in the Acts 10:43-48 account. He commanded they be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. As evidenced from scriptures elsewhere, they were given the opportunity to receive remission of sin through obedience to water baptism in accordance with God's will. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) To refuse to allow the Cornelius and his group to get water baptized would in fact be barring them from having their sins remitted. (John 20:23)

The Jewish leaders' concluding statement to Peter says it all. "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18

so again no denial

so ONENESS PENTECOSTAL is what we are dealing with here

thanks for the confirmation

we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ

you are indoctrinated with the heretical Oneness Pentecostal sect and sadly have been led astray

further, you are starting to really double down on the dishonesty Wansvic. you know very well you believe in a second infilling of the Holy Spirit...I do too...but I don't disguise it. here, you have attempted to say no one had the Holy Spirit...you are twisting what Paul says. we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe as per the following scripture, posted in many translations all saying the same thing

so, even though in the next breath you will tell someone they need to speak in tongues or they are not saved, here, you say not one saved person had any way of being saved...BECAUSE you do not recognize salvation through the blood of Christ only, WITHOUT WORKS

there is no water involved and nothing about Paul because did not send the Holy Spirit and is not in charge of the Holy Spirit

it seems you do not believe the Holy Spirit is anything but a force, according to your sect, even though the Bible is plain He is a person, albeit Spirit.

KJ21
In Christ ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in Whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
ASV
in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,—in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
AMP
In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].
AMPC
In Him you also who have heard the Word of Truth, the glad tidings (Gospel) of your salvation, and have believed in and adhered to and relied on Him, were stamped with the seal of the long-promised Holy Spirit.
BRG
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
CSB
In him you also were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed.
CEB
You too heard the word of truth in Christ, which is the good news of your salvation. You were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit because you believed in Christ.
CJB
Furthermore, you who heard the message of the truth, the Good News offering you deliverance, and put your trust in the Messiah were sealed by him with the promised Ruach HaKodesh,
CEV
Christ also brought you the truth, which is the good news about how you can be saved. You put your faith in Christ and were given the promised Holy Spirit to show that you belong to God.
DARBY
in whom *ye* also [have trusted], having heard the word of the truth, the glad tidings of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, ye have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
DLNT
... in Whom also you— having heard the word of truth, the good-news of your salvation, in which also having put-faith— you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
DRA
In whom you also, after you had heard the word of truth, (the gospel of your salvation in whom also believing, you were signed with the holy Spirit of promise,
ERV
It is the same with you. You heard the true message, the Good News about the way God saves you. When you heard that Good News, you believed in Christ. And in Christ, God put his special mark on you by giving you the Holy Spirit that he promised.
EHV
In him, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and in him, when you also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
ESV
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
ESVUK
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
EXB
So it is with you. When you heard the ·true teaching [message/word of truth]—the ·Good News about [Gospel of] your salvation—you believed in Christ. ·And in Christ, God put his special mark of ownership on you by giving you [L …having been sealed with] the Holy Spirit that he had promised.
GNV
In whom also ye have trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, even the Gospel of your salvation, wherein also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the holy Spirit of promise,
GW
You heard and believed the message of truth, the Good News that he has saved you. In him you were sealed with the Holy Spirit whom he promised.
GNT
And you also became God's people when you heard the true message, the Good News that brought you salvation. You believed in Christ, and God put his stamp of ownership on you by giving you the Holy Spirit he had promised.
HCSB
When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
ICB
So it is with you. You heard the true teaching—the Good News about your salvation. When you heard it, you believed in Christ. And in Christ, God put his special mark on you by giving you the Holy Spirit that he had promised.
ISV
You, too, have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed in the Messiah, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

con't

You highlighted one thing. However, two things are required:
1. Whoever hears my word.
2. And believes him who sent me

We must not lose sight of the fact that Jesus is the word. And that he is the author of eternal salvation to those who obey Him. Many fail to realize that the message Peter initially gave on the Day of Pentecost was in fact a message from Jesus Himself. This truth is found in the following scripture:

"The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:" Acts 1:1-2

PHILLIPS
And here is the staggering thing—that in all which will one day belong to him we have been promised a share (since we were long ago destined for this by the one who achieves his purposes by his sovereign will), so that we, as the first to put our confidence in Christ, may bring praise to his glory! And you too trusted him, when you heard the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation. And after you gave your confidence to him you were, so to speak, stamped with the promised Holy Spirit as a guarantee of purchase, until the day when God completes the redemption of what he has paid for as his own; and that will again be to the praise of his glory.
JUB
In whom ye also trusted, hearing the word of truth, the gospel of your saving health; in whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of the promise,
KJV
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
AKJV
in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
LEB
in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
TLB
And because of what Christ did, all you others too, who heard the Good News about how to be saved, and trusted Christ, were marked as belonging to Christ by the Holy Spirit, who long ago had been promised to all of us Christians.
MSG
It’s in Christ that you, once you heard the truth and believed it (this Message of your salvation), found yourselves home free—signed, sealed, and delivered by the Holy Spirit. This down payment from God is the first installment on what’s coming, a reminder that we’ll get everything God has planned for us, a praising and glorious life.
MEV
In Him you also, after hearing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and after believing in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
MOUNCE
You also are in him, having heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation; in him also, when you believed, you were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit, · ·
NOG
You heard and believed the message of truth, the Good News that he has saved you. In him you were sealed with the Holy Spirit whom he promised.
NABRE
In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised holy Spirit,
NASB
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise,
NASB1995
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
NCB
In Christ you also heard the message of truth and the gospel of your salvation, and you came to believe in him. In him, you were marked with the seal of the Holy Spirit who had been promised.
NCV
So it is with you. When you heard the true teaching—the Good News about your salvation—you believed in Christ. And in Christ, God put his special mark of ownership on you by giving you the Holy Spirit that he had promised.
NET
And when you heard the word of truth (the gospel of your salvation)—when you believed in Christ—you were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit,
NIRV
You also became believers in Christ. That happened when you heard the message of truth. It was the good news about how you could be saved. When you believed, he stamped you with an official mark. That official mark is the Holy Spirit that he promised.
NIV
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
NIVUK
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
NKJV
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
NLV
The truth is the Good News. When you heard the truth, you put your trust in Christ. Then God marked you by giving you His Holy Spirit as a promise.
NLT
And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
NMB
In him also you (after you heard the word of truth, I mean the gospel of your salvation, in which you believed) were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
NRSV
In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit;
NRSVA
In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit;
NRSVACE
In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit;
NRSVCE
In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit;
NTE
In him you too, who heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed it – in him you were marked out with the spirit of promise, the holy one.
OJB
In Moshiach you also, having heard the message of HaEmes, the Besuras HaGeulah of Yeshu’at Eloheinu which is yours, having also come to emunah, received your chotam (seal) in Moshiach with the Ruach Hakodesh of havtachah (promise),

con't

TPT
And because of him, when you who are not Jews heard the revelation of truth, you believed in the wonderful news of salvation. Now we have been stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit.
RGT
in Whom also, you, having heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, and after having believed, were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
RSV
In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
RSVCE
In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
TLV
After you heard the message of truth—the Good News of your salvation—and when you put your trust in Him, you were sealed with the promised Ruach ha-Kodesh.
VOICE
Because you, too, have heard the word of truth—the good news of your salvation—and because you believed in the One who is truth, your lives are marked with His seal. This is none other than the Holy Spirit who was promised
WEB
In him you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
WE
You also believed in Christ when you heard the true message. That message is the good news by which you were saved. You received the Holy Spirit whom God had promised. You were marked as belonging to him.
WYC
In whom also ye were called, when ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your health, in whom ye believing be marked with the Holy Ghost of promise,
YLT
in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth -- the good news of your salvation -- in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise,



that's an awful lot of translations and not one of them mentions baptism

not one

I am pretty sure you are not equipped to translate scripture and tell all the translators that they have been incorrect for a couple of thousand years , because, if you were, no doubt you would have mentioned it by now

So, what you say is not true as I was able to confirm in agreement with scripture

In Christ ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in Whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13

when do we receive the Holy Spirit? after we believe

not after anything else

you are teaching a false gospel

You did not answer my question. And that's fine. The point concerning how apostles actually water baptized has been made. Accepting or rejecting it is a personal decision all must make.

perhaps it would be better if you would answer questions instead of telling other people they do not answer a question when they did answer but you did not like the answer so you say they did not answer

accepting or rejecting is your prerogative of course, but maybe stop directing others when you play the judge in this thread

there are no Bible believing Christians who are going to give a thumbs up on Oneness doctrine nor will they agree with your view on baptism

your views are simply not supported by scripture

It's a man made tradition begun around 325 A.D. I've included some of the documentation below:

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, VOLUME 8
“Justin Martys was one of the early Fathers of the Roman Catholic Church who helped change the ancient baptism of “in the Name of Jesus Christ” to the titles of Father, Son and Holy Ghost”

FORMULA “With regard to the form used for baptism in the early Church, there is the difficulty that although Matthew 28:19 seems to speaks of the Trinitarian formula which is now used, the Acts of the Apostles (2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5) and Paul (I Corinthians 1:13, 6:11, Galatians 3:27, Romans 6:3) speak only of baptism “in the Name of Jesus.”


CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, 1967 edition, volume 2, pages 56, 59.
“An explicit reference to the Trinitarian formula of baptism cannot be found in the first centuries.”


CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEIA, 1913 edition, volume 2, Page 265:
“They acknowledge that the original formula for baptism was in the Name of Jesus, but
the pope changed it.”

ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION AND ETHICS Scribner‘s T & T Clark, Edinburgh, 1924, vol 1 Page 380
“Christian baptism, when connected with the mention of a formula, is alluded to four times in the Acts (2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5) and the formula is never that of (Matthew 28:19) but is twice in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38, 10:48) and twice in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 8:16, 19:5).

That this was the usual formula of Christian baptism is supported by the evidence of the Pauline Epistles, which speak of being baptized only into Christ or into Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:27, Romans 6:3).

Is it possible to reconcile these facts with the belief that Christ commanded the disciples to baptize in the trine name?

The obvious explanation of the silence of New Testament on the trine name, and the use of another formula in Acts and Paul is that this other formula was the earlier, and that the trine formula is a later edition. It would require very strong argument to controvert this presumption, and none seems to exist”.

ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION AND ETHICS James Hastings, Published 1924, volume 2, Pages 377, 378, 384, 389:
Page 377. “It is clear from the contemporary usage (Acts 1:15; 11:13; Revelations 3:4) that ‘name’ was an ancient synonym for ‘person.’

Page 378 “Whereupon the latter sealed the reception of the candidate into the holy community by invoking ‘the fair name’ of the Lord Jesus upon his head (James 2:7; Revelations 7:3; 9:4; 14:1; 22:4).”

Page 384. “The formula used was “in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ,” or some synonymous phrase. There is no evidence for the use of the triune name.”

Page 389. The earliest known formula is, “in the name of the Lord Jesus” or some similar phrase...”


AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIONS - Maurice Canney, page 53.
“Persons were baptized at first “in the name of Jesus Christ” (Acts 2:38, 10:48) or “in the name of the Lord Jesus” (Acts 8:16, 19:5).

Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost

@Wansvic

When you get a chance can you please answer the questions?

I did also ask in a different post if someone sat in your church came to faith in Jesus when would you baptise them?

Ta

Someone else included the following scan of a Roman Catholic booklet that addresses the issue. Notice the last paragraph, particularly the last sentence.

It's a man made tradition begun around 325 A.D. I've included some of the documentation below:

Click to expand...

well, that is exactly what we might expect you to say, considering:

There is Only One God
Oneness Pentecostals declare that the Godhead consists of only one Person and deny the traditional doctrine of the Trinity. They maintain that the only real “person” in the Godhead is Jesus. Thus, they are often referred to as the “Jesus Only” Movement. They maintain that God exists in two modes, as the Father in heaven and as Jesus the Son on earth. Nevertheless, they are the same person, not two separate persons. The Holy Spirit is not regarded as a person at all, merely a manifestation of Jesus’ power or a synonym for Him. Several verses are quoted to establish this view such as Colossians 2:9 (NKJV), “For in Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” Oneness theologians would argue that if the Father and the Son were separate, then the Godhead could not fully dwell in Christ. They also look to Matthew 28:19 to affirm their views that Jesus commanded His disciples to baptize in the “name” (singular) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is said to have two natures: human and divine. Thus, when He died, only His human nature died. Also, when Jesus prayed, it was His human nature praying to His divine nature – not to a separate Father in heaven. As mentioned, the Oneness Pentecostal view of God is similar to the ancient heresy of Modalism. Modalism is the belief that one God existed in time in three distinct modes of being: first as the Father in heaven; second, bodily as the Son on earth; and finally as the Holy Spirit.

source

well as much as you would like to employ such aids in the defense of your gospel, you should be aware that your own Oneness sect starting around 1901, so......as much as you want to defend yourself, the history of your sect reveals you have not been around as long as folks understand that the Trinity is actually a biblical doctrinr


History of the Oneness Movement
The modern Pentecostal movement is generally regarded to have begun in 1901 in a chapel prayer meeting in Topeka, Kan., led by Charles Parham, a teacher at Bethel Bible College. A few years later, in 1906, the Pentecostal experience of “speaking in tongues” burst on the scene during a revival in an African-American Baptist church on Azuza Street in Los Angeles, Calif. Following these beginnings, Pentecostal preachers and churches spread rapidly, coalescing into various denominations and factions.

In 1913, one popular teacher, R.E. McAlister of Toronto, Ont., began teaching that the Trinity doctrine was untrue and that baptism should be done correctly in Jesus’ name only – not in the traditional Trinitarian formula. Other preachers, such as Frank J. Ewart and John G. Scheppe, joined McAlister in his non-Trinitarian perspective.

By 1916, “oneness” views were being expounded by some ministers in the Assemblies of God (AOG), a then new Pentecostal denomination. These were strongly rejected by the denomination’s council that year, and the AOG, to its credit, adopted a strong Trinitarian stance in its statement of faith. Nonetheless, more than 160 Oneness ministers who were expelled from the AOG quickly formed their own alliances to promote their heretical doctrines.

source

I myself can attest to the fact that throughout this discussion you have been less than cordial. Just because you do not accept what I have presented from the word does not justify your being rude. And don't bother asking me to point out each post because I don't have the inclination to waste my time. Just be humble and take some personal responsibility for your actions.