Doctrine of Unconditional Election
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brightfame52 It could b both because god can do that kind of stuff.
Of course the Bible teaches election, that God chooses or elects people. However, there is not even 1 verse that teaches that God "unconditionally elects" anyone to salvation. I've researched every use of the 3 related Greek words about election; the noun, the verb and the adjective. None of them are about salvation. One must "read that into" the verse to come to such a conclusion.
And, there are many verses that teach that salvation is conditioned upon faith in faith.
So, since unconditional election cannot be about salvation, what is the purpose of God's election? Glad you asked.
Election is to service. In every case. And God elects unbelievers for service as well. So election is unconditional in that there are no conditions upon which God chooses one for service.
Here is a passage on the general principle that election is to service, from 1 Cor 1:27-28
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
The red words are about who God chooses. The blue words are the purpose for which God chooses. Service in every case.
Now, here is a list of all the examples of who God has elected in Scripture:
1. Election of Christ: Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
Matt 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"
Luke 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.
1 Peter 2:6 For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him shall not be disappointed."
2. Election of Israel: Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."
Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
3. Election of Angels: 1 Tim 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.
4. Election of the Church or body of Christ: Eph 1:4a just as He chose us (believers) in Him…
5. Other elections:
Paul: Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
Apostles: John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you , and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you.
John 6:70,71 "70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
In EVERY example listed, salvation is NOT in view. Only service is in view.
Regarding Jesus Christ, listen to what He said about Himself, The Chosen One: Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Regarding angels, Heb 1:14 - 14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
So, your challenge is to provide any verse that clearly shows God choosing unconditionally someone to save.
And, there are many verses that teach that salvation is conditioned upon faith in faith.
So, since unconditional election cannot be about salvation, what is the purpose of God's election? Glad you asked.
Election is to service. In every case. And God elects unbelievers for service as well. So election is unconditional in that there are no conditions upon which God chooses one for service.
Here is a passage on the general principle that election is to service, from 1 Cor 1:27-28
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
The red words are about who God chooses. The blue words are the purpose for which God chooses. Service in every case.
Now, here is a list of all the examples of who God has elected in Scripture:
1. Election of Christ: Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
Matt 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"
Luke 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.
1 Peter 2:6 For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him shall not be disappointed."
2. Election of Israel: Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."
Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
3. Election of Angels: 1 Tim 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.
4. Election of the Church or body of Christ: Eph 1:4a just as He chose us (believers) in Him…
5. Other elections:
Paul: Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
Apostles: John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you , and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you.
John 6:70,71 "70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
In EVERY example listed, salvation is NOT in view. Only service is in view.
Regarding Jesus Christ, listen to what He said about Himself, The Chosen One: Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Regarding angels, Heb 1:14 - 14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
So, your challenge is to provide any verse that clearly shows God choosing unconditionally someone to save.
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Of course the Bible teaches election, that God chooses or elects people. However, there is not even 1 verse that teaches that God "unconditionally elects" anyone to salvation. I've researched every use of the 3 related Greek words about election; the noun, the verb and the adjective. None of them are about salvation. One must "read that into" the verse to come to such a conclusion.
And, there are many verses that teach that salvation is conditioned upon faith in faith.
So, since unconditional election cannot be about salvation, what is the purpose of God's election? Glad you asked.
Election is to service. In every case. And God elects unbelievers for service as well. So election is unconditional in that there are no conditions upon which God chooses one for service.
Here is a passage on the general principle that election is to service, from 1 Cor 1:27-28
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
The red words are about who God chooses. The blue words are the purpose for which God chooses. Service in every case.
Now, here is a list of all the examples of who God has elected in Scripture:
1. Election of Christ: Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
Matt 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"
Luke 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.
1 Peter 2:6 For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him shall not be disappointed."
2. Election of Israel: Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."
Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
3. Election of Angels: 1 Tim 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.
4. Election of the Church or body of Christ: Eph 1:4a just as He chose us (believers) in Him…
5. Other elections:
Paul: Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
Apostles: John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you , and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you.
John 6:70,71 "70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
In EVERY example listed, salvation is NOT in view. Only service is in view.
Regarding Jesus Christ, listen to what He said about Himself, The Chosen One: Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Regarding angels, Heb 1:14 - 14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
So, your challenge is to provide any verse that clearly shows God choosing unconditionally someone to save.
And, there are many verses that teach that salvation is conditioned upon faith in faith.
So, since unconditional election cannot be about salvation, what is the purpose of God's election? Glad you asked.
Election is to service. In every case. And God elects unbelievers for service as well. So election is unconditional in that there are no conditions upon which God chooses one for service.
Here is a passage on the general principle that election is to service, from 1 Cor 1:27-28
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
The red words are about who God chooses. The blue words are the purpose for which God chooses. Service in every case.
Now, here is a list of all the examples of who God has elected in Scripture:
1. Election of Christ: Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
Matt 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.
Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"
Luke 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.
1 Peter 2:6 For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him shall not be disappointed."
2. Election of Israel: Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."
Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
3. Election of Angels: 1 Tim 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.
4. Election of the Church or body of Christ: Eph 1:4a just as He chose us (believers) in Him…
5. Other elections:
Paul: Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
Apostles: John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you , and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you.
John 6:70,71 "70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)
In EVERY example listed, salvation is NOT in view. Only service is in view.
Regarding Jesus Christ, listen to what He said about Himself, The Chosen One: Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Regarding angels, Heb 1:14 - 14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
So, your challenge is to provide any verse that clearly shows God choosing unconditionally someone to save.
Yes, God made a lot of choices before He created the world. But it seems you don't understand what "conditions" means.
Regarding Eph 1:4, the "us" in that verse is defined clearly in v.19. "us who believe". So 1:4 says that God chose believers (who are in Him) before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless.
Red words state the purpose of election in Eph 1:4. iow, from before the foundation of the world, God chose believers (He is omniscient) to be holy and blameless.
Could you address the list of examples I gave along with verses that prove my claim and see where I'm wrong.
Thanks.
Regarding Eph 1:4, the "us" in that verse is defined clearly in v.19. "us who believe". So 1:4 says that God chose believers (who are in Him) before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless.
Red words state the purpose of election in Eph 1:4. iow, from before the foundation of the world, God chose believers (He is omniscient) to be holy and blameless.
Could you address the list of examples I gave along with verses that prove my claim and see where I'm wrong.
Thanks.
Actually we should look at the unbiblical doctrine of divine determinism that you hold to. If that doctrine were true then God not only chose those to be saved but also those to be condemned to hell. And this was not because of anything they did but just because He wanted to. Now that is why the calvinist view impunes the character of God.
You keep trying to justify calvinism by proof texting but it does not work for anyone that takes the time to look at the verses in context.
You keep trying to justify calvinism by proof texting but it does not work for anyone that takes the time to look at the verses in context.
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Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Well since you can not find this verse in your special Calvinist bible I put them here for you. You need to get yourself a real bible then perhaps you will trust in the real God of the bible not the one you have made up in your mind.
Well since you can not find this verse in your special Calvinist bible I put them here for you. You need to get yourself a real bible then perhaps you will trust in the real God of the bible not the one you have made up in your mind.
Great point!
The Calvinist view actually gives every person who will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev 22:15) an EXCUSE. That is; God simply didn't choose them for heaven. When those chosen are just as UNWORTHY as those heading for the flames.
It's all based on the lottery, as you note.
But since Rom 1:20 says that man has NO EXCUSE, it should be obvious to all that Calvinism cannot be correct. It actually gives the condemned an excuse.
The reason no one has an excuse is because God HAS revealed Himself to everyone. And everyone has a choice; to recognize God and be thankful to Him, or not.
Psa 14:1-3 and 53:1-3 tells us that the "fool says in his heart that there is no God". Atheists are fools, according to Scripture.
Titus 2:11 tells us that the grace of God offers (brings) salvation to everyone. EVERY ONE.
God gives mankind a choice.
The Calvinist view actually gives every person who will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev 22:15) an EXCUSE. That is; God simply didn't choose them for heaven. When those chosen are just as UNWORTHY as those heading for the flames.
It's all based on the lottery, as you note.
But since Rom 1:20 says that man has NO EXCUSE, it should be obvious to all that Calvinism cannot be correct. It actually gives the condemned an excuse.
The reason no one has an excuse is because God HAS revealed Himself to everyone. And everyone has a choice; to recognize God and be thankful to Him, or not.
Psa 14:1-3 and 53:1-3 tells us that the "fool says in his heart that there is no God". Atheists are fools, according to Scripture.
Titus 2:11 tells us that the grace of God offers (brings) salvation to everyone. EVERY ONE.
God gives mankind a choice.
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