Documentary—7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

This is an excellent documentary on the rapture. It's a little long (2 hours 16 min.), but it's worth watching. It's a very professional production with graphics and illustrations throughout. It takes the pre-wrath position and does a very thorough job of comparing that with pre-trib. Enjoy!

This is an excellent documentary on the rapture. It's a little long (2 hours 16 min.), but it's worth watching. It's a very professional production with graphics and illustrations throughout. It takes the pre-wrath position and does a very thorough job of comparing that with pre-trib. Enjoy!

I predict pre-tribbers will hate it.

I'm a "pre-tribber" and there is nothing to "hate", since one has to feel sorry for those who cannot see a Pre-Tribulation Rapture in Scripture. There is not a single Rapture passage which says anything about the Tribulation. In fact Christ prefaced His teaching on the Rapture by saying "Let not your heart be troubled". He could have said "You will go through the Tribulation before I take you to Heaven". But He did not.

In fact Christ prefaced His teaching on the Rapture by saying "Let not your heart be troubled". He could have said "You will go through the Tribulation before I take you to Heaven". But He did not.

I predict pre-tribbers will hate it. Others might learn something from it. Still some pre-tribbers might be convinced to change their mind but I'm not holding my breath. If someone can't be convinced by this film, I don't know what it will take.

First of all, the information that they present is the same information that we have already studied and continue to address.

The "Pre-Wrath" gathering of the church is based on God's wrath beginning at after the opening of the 6th seal and that because of the statement "the great day of their wrath has come and who can endure it." So because of this, they interpret God's wrath as beginning after that announcement, which is a false assumption. By removing the first six seals as belonging to God's wrath, they are able to put the church on the earth during that time. However, the statement that God's wrath has come is not a starting point, but is an announcement of God's wrath in it's entirety, i.e. the reason for the previous seals and the trumpets and bowls that are still to come.

We have to remember, that it is the Lamb/Jesus who is opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets and bowl judgments and which means that He is responsible for all of their destruction and fatalities.

Since God's wrath begins at the opening of the first seal, then the church must be gathered prior to that first seal being opened.

I am completely convinced that Revelation 4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered and is supported by the fact that the word church never appears from that point forward, yet it was used 19 times throughout the first three chapters.

How do you get Christians won't have to go through at least part of the tribulation from this verse? I'm just curious. Is it only because He didn't say anything about having to suffer tribulation? He didn't say "when I come we'll stop on Mars first and have a look around" either.

The tribulation period is the time period when God's wrath will be taking place. The church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath and therefore cannot be on the earth during that time period. It is a time of God's wrath for the wicked not the righteous. However, there will be those believers who will have missed the the gathering because they will have gone back into the world, willfully living according to the sinful nature. Then there will be those who heard, but did not believe and will become believers realizing what has taken place and what time period they are now in.

Some of these will be killed during the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period and the others during the last 3 1/2 years, referred to as the great tribulation saints, which are introduced in Rev.7:9-17. If you will notice, after the end of chapter 3, they are never referred to as the church, but as saints. There is a distinction being made here between the church and those who become saints after the church has been removed.

While it is true that believers must go through trials and tribulations as a result of our faith in Christ. We are not to go through God's coming wrath which is His tribulation.

Are you saying then that "God's wrath" involves the entire seven year period? If so, how do you arrive at that conclusion?

"And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time."

In Revelation 12, Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth is the result of the 7th trumpet. When Satan is cast to the earth, the woman/Israel flees into the wilderness where she is cared for, for 1260 days, which puts Satan and his angels being cast out as taking place from the middle of that seven year period and covers the last 3 1/2 years. Therefore, since the 7th trumpet takes place in the middle of the seven years, then the previous seals and other six trumpets would have to take place during the first 3 1/2 years.

It's elementary my dear Watson

I'm sorry, but you're seriously deluded.

I'm sorry, but I can't discuss this subject with someone with such an obviously "elementary" understanding. Like most people, I believe you've been influenced by the so-called "great minds" who push the pre-trib nonsense. I sincerely hope you'll look for the truth about this important issue.

The church cannot and will not go through the tribulation period, the time of God's wrath.

First of all, the information that they present is the same information that we have already studied and continue to address.

The "Pre-Wrath" gathering of the church is based on God's wrath beginning at after the opening of the 6th seal and that because of the statement "the great day of their wrath has come and who can endure it." So because of this, they interpret God's wrath as beginning after that announcement, which is a false assumption. By removing the first six seals as belonging to God's wrath, they are able to put the church on the earth during that time. However, the statement that God's wrath has come is not a starting point, but is an announcement of God's wrath in it's entirety, i.e. the reason for the previous seals and the trumpets and bowls that are still to come.

We have to remember, that it is the Lamb/Jesus who is opening the seals, which leads into the trumpets and bowl judgments and which means that He is responsible for all of their destruction and fatalities.

Since God's wrath begins at the opening of the first seal, then the church must be gathered prior to that first seal being opened.

I am completely convinced that Revelation 4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered and is supported by the fact that the word church never appears from that point forward, yet it was used 19 times throughout the first three chapters.

How do you get Christians won't have to go through at least part of the tribulation from this verse? I'm just curious. Is it only because He didn't say anything about having to suffer tribulation? He didn't say "when I come we'll stop on Mars first and have a look around" either.

Seem to me Christian go to tribulation

Matt 24
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Read verse 9