Paul's Conversion

Verse 4 makes the context of the scripture you reference clear. Man did nothing to warrant God providing man with a Savior. It is His mercy that saves us through our obedience to His command of water baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Which is only made possible by Jesus Christ our Savior.

Titus 3:4-7
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
KJV

Ok so what you are really saying if we are not baptised then we are not saved?
Therefore baptism saves?
If so then faith is not needed?

Post this verse please...I'm pretty sure it says that Ananias placed his hands upon Saul and Saul received the Holy Ghost. After that, Paul was baptized. Acts is a transitional book, not a doctrinal book.

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

So do you.
I have no problems telling belivers to be baptised.
If you had read one of my earlier posts I said it should be done straight away when someone places their faith in Jesus.

I don't believe baptism saves us.

Please look at what the word actually says:

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

And yet Jesus never water baptized anyone.

So, that verse is entirely Spiritual, and the "fire"... is not "tongues of fire" as the Charismatics love to misquote their favorite verse.

According to the word that's when God remits one's personal sin.

Agree totally.

I am not a charismatic (though don't fully understand it) but I was told by one that because I did not speak in tongues it was evidence I was not saved.
Sad thing I went forward for prayer cause I was struggling and that was the response.
Then I was asked would I like to speak in tongues and was given a few words to constantly repeat.

I left as quickly as a bullet from a gun.

I carried that burden for numerous years believing I wasn't saved.

That this just as despicable as saying you must be baptised to be saved.

Those who lay such heavy burdens on fellow believers will answer for this before Jesus.

Agree totally.

I am not a charismatic (though don't fully understand it) but I was told by one that because I did not speak in tongues it was evidence I was not saved.
.

And about those Charismatics....
They all teach that you can lose your salvation, so, thats the proof they are all "fallen from Grace'.

Within this sect or cult, you can find...>"word of Faith" churches, and they are Charismatic, but most are not fallen from Grace.
They know that Salvation is Eternal Life, and that Eternal life is not temporary............ as Jesus who is Eternal Life in IN US.
So, where He is, we are.......and where He goes.........we go.

Brother, the proof you are saved is that you are born again.
That's the only actual proof.
So, when you gave God your faith in Christ, because you knew that Christ is Savior and you felt that pull, that leading that heart drawing to come to JESUS....., God took your faith and gave you His very righteousness., that very instant.
Done deal.
The bumper sticker reads......>"if you take Christ, God takes you".
He promised.....and He will every time.
Philippians 1:6 says that God starts salvation in you and God finishes it for you.

And about those Charismatics....
They all teach that you can lose your salvation, so, thats the proof they are all "fallen from Grace'.
See, if you believe you can lose your salvation, then that is because you dont BELIEVE THAT CHRIST keeps you saved.
= "fallen from Grace".
Within this sect or cult, you can find...>"word of Faith" churches, and they are Charismatic, but most are not fallen from Grace.
They know that Salvation is Eternal Life, and that Eternal life is not temporary............ as Jesus who is Eternal Life in IN US.
So, where He is, we are.......and where He goes.........we go.

------------------------------------------------------------

Reader,
Let me show you a way to argue for the Cross and against a heretic who tries the....>"well as long as i keep my faith, I stay saved.""

Tell them that Faith is not the Savior. God is the Savior.
God saves THROUGH Faith......
Tell them not to have "faith in faith", but to only have Faith in Christ.
See that?

or, if they are this type heretic......."well, as long as you abide in Christ, then you are saved".... "but if dont abide, then you are lost"..

Tell them. "We are not saved by doing anything.....we are saved because JESUS ABIDES IN US>...>"Christ in you, the hope of Glory".

Then they will disagree, and say.....>"see this symbolic verse that says if we dont abide, .. then we are cast away as branches and burned".

You can ask them.....>"Why are you teaching a symbolic verse, as a literal verse".......and you can ask them......>"are you a branch or a person"? And you can ask them...>"who is it that gathers up the branches,...????
They will have no idea, and neither does the New Testament..
See, they are not trying to be honest, they are only tying to cause a real believer to feel condemnation and begin fo fear that they can lose their salvaiton.
See, that is why these Devil led heretics exist on Forums......Its to try to change the Gospel of Grace into >works and water<, or its to try to ruin a believers faith, and get them caught up in....."what if ive lost my salvation".... = FEAR.
its really so very DEVILISH, what these people try to do... to other REAL Believers.

So, for the benefit of the new believer, or the young in faith who understands what Grace is, and how the Blood of Jesus makes you clean all the time, for eternity.........a good thing to know is this...

= f a born again Christian, went to hell, then God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, who are IN ALL THE BORN AGAIN, will be going to Hell also, as Christ told us that He would never leave us or forsake us, and that means...>"im always going to be IN YOU">....
Saint, you are always going to be "the Temple of the Holy Spirit".....always.
So, where we go, Jesus goes, and Saint,..... Christ wont be going to hell, and neither will you, if you are born again.

so are you calling Charismatics a cult ?

I don't think he was saying that.
He said most are not fallen from grace.

I suppose we need to realise there will be some bad apples in the pot.
Yet Paul says their works that they built on the foundation of Jesus (teaching) will be tested, yet they will be saved if all burned up.

The OP is obsessed with water. He will not be happy on judgment day. Good luck. Many have tried to show him.. Maybe you can get through with the help of God

it's a wonder we aren't told that all of Pharaoh's army were baptized in the Red Sea

I suppose some might say that is really bad humor, but these saved by water threads are enough already

Verse 4 makes the context of the scripture you reference clear. Man did nothing to warrant God providing man with a Savior. It is His mercy that saves us through our obedience to His command of water baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Which is only made possible by Jesus Christ our Savior.

Titus 3:4-7
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
KJV