More Errors?

These are my personal notes on Day 143 of the timeline, chronological reading plan from the Blue Letter Bible website. For you "scholars" here, I'd love to hear your thoughts on these two parallel chapters. And no, I do not read commentary (only very rarely) as I would much rather bring ALL studies to ALL of you here. Therefore, please do your best NOT to go to commentaries, but let's work through these issues on our own and with the Holy Help of our Father in Heaven. Thanks for your input.

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Writing about Day One Hundred and Forty-Three has been a difficult challenge. Why? Because while there seems to be critical doctrine to cover, those teachings are shrouded with disagreement. There are three points of contention within this set of readings, and they are as follows:

Second Samuel 24 teaches us that the Lord incited David to generate the census for Judah and Israel. At the same time, First Chronicles testifies that Satan incited David into developing the census.

Second Samuel teaches that David purchased the Threshing Floor for 50 shekels of silver, while First Chronicles teaches that he paid 600 shekels of gold. That’s a massive difference, especially by today’s standards.

Lastly, there is a discrepancy regarding the number of fighting men between the two parallel chapters.

Typically, there would be plenty of opportunities to expound upon teachings such as Holy Mind Control in today's reading, but how can we “go there” if the two sources can’t get their stories straight? Was it God, or Satan, who occupied David’s mind so that he would generate the census? Is it possible to be more backward? We should be writing of the Holy Mind Control that the Lord pressed onto David to cause him to generate the census. However, we cannot follow through with that vital teaching because the First Chronicles rendition is in complete contradiction. We cannot use the Second Samuel text to demonstrate the Mind Control of the Lord. Let’s take a look at the Scriptures themselves and make comparisons.

Who Incited the Lord against Israel?
Second Samuel 24 1-3 . . . N K J V: – “Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah." So the king said to Joab the commander of the army who was with him, "Now go throughout all the tribes of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, and count the people, that I may know the number of the people." And Joab said to the king, "Now may the LORD your God add to the people a hundred times more than there are, and may the eyes of my lord the king see it. But why does my lord the king desire this thing?"

First Chronicles 21 1-3 . . . N K J V: – “Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. So David said to Joab and to the leaders of the people, "Go, number Israel from Beersheba to Dan, and bring the number of them to me that I may know it." And Joab answered, "May the LORD make His people a hundred times more than they are. But, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? Why then does my lord require this thing? Why should he be a cause of guilt in Israel?"

How Many Shekels?
Second Samuel 24 24 . . . N K J V: – “Then the king said to Araunah, "No, but I will surely buy it from you for a price; nor will I offer burnt offerings to the LORD my God with that which costs me nothing." So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.”

First Chronicles 21 24-25 . . . N K J V: – “Then King David said to Ornan, "No, but I will surely buy it for the full price, for I will not take what is yours for the LORD, nor offer burnt offerings with that which costs me nothing." So David gave Ornan six hundred shekels of gold by weight for the place.”

How Many Fighting Men?
Second Samuel 24 9 . . . N K J V: – “Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to the king. And there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.” – This is a total of one million, three hundred thousand fighting men.

First Chronicles 21 5-6 . . . N K J V: – “Then Joab gave the sum of the number of the people to David. All Israel had one million one hundred thousand men who drew the sword, and Judah had four hundred and seventy thousand men who drew the sword. But he did not count Levi and Benjamin among them, for the king's word was abominable to Joab.” – In this rendition of the story, we have one million, five hundred and seventy thousand fighting men; a difference of two hundred and seventy thousand fighting men.

Let’s take a step back and revisit the census. Would it be fair to say that the Lord was upset with Israel, or perhaps even David, because David might not trust that all of the fighting men were True Israelites . . . the Lord’s Servants? Joab makes this case in verse 3 (immediately below), asking David to confirm or deny that all of the men's hearts belonged to the king. It seems that David was possibly fearful of "men" and wanted to make sure who they were, that perhaps there were no enemies amongst them. But if this were the case, why would the Lord have been upset with David for attempting to find out who Truly belonged to Israel, compared to those who belonged to the abominable Canaanites and Hivites?

• First Chronicles 21 3 . . . N K J V: - “And Joab answered, "May the LORD make His people a hundred times more than they are. But, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? Why then does my lord require this thing? Why should he be a cause of guilt in Israel?"

If the Second Samuel rendition is correct, could it be that God was looking for a reason to clean, sift, and Purify His Jewish House? Does the Lord know that 70,000 people were not True Jews, but those of the Seven Nations? Were these the Plans of our Powerful God? Is it possible that God was eliminating those who were not of the True Vine? If so, then why punish David for such a deed as performing a census? God caused David to conduct the census, so why should this crime and subsequent punishment fall upon his shoulders? Ultimately, the punishment did not fall upon David, but upon the 70,000 who died.

Those foolish enough to find fault with God's ways will be greatly dismayed and humbled.

Am I a "fool"?

Typically, there would be plenty of opportunities to expound upon teachings such as Holy Mind Control in today's reading, but how can we “go there” if the two sources can’t get their stories straight? Was it God, or Satan, who occupied David’s mind so that he would generate the census? Is it possible to be more backward? We should be writing of the Holy Mind Control that the Lord pressed onto David to cause him to generate the census. However, we cannot follow through with that vital teaching because the First Chronicles rendition is in complete contradiction. We cannot use the Second Samuel text to demonstrate the Mind Control of the Lord. Let’s take a look at the Scriptures themselves and make comparisons.

Am I a "fool"?

Are you finding fault with God's ways? I hope you don't think that I'm implying that because I'm not.

I think if you read some commentaries it may help your understanding. Gideon has answered your view that scripture contradicts itself. It doesn't. You need to understand God's providence more clearly.

Just for further study read Isaiah 10:5ff- who is doing what?


Just as a side question. What is ''Holy mind control'' ? and how does it work?

It is better to be a fool in the sight of man for the sake of God than to be a fool in the sight of God for the sake of man.

I have never thought you as being the fool, and I will not start now. God bless you big time, amen.

after being woke up by God inside then the history is shown as allegory like Paul was shown in his heart.

Ultimately, the punishment did not fall upon David, but upon the 70,000 who died.

So, I notice one verse says 50 shekles of silver for the threshing floor and oxen, while the other says 600 sheckles of gold for "the place"... maybe David ended up buying the guys entire estate or more than just the oxen/threshing floor? That would be my first guess. I don't know much about the economy of that day, but I'd imagine 600 sheckles of gold could get you quite a bit. Maybe the 50 sheckles of silver was like a down payment? It's not like he was carrying around 600 sheckles of gold on him. I don't think... that would be heavy wouldn't it?

With respect to numbering Judah, I agree. I don't think the Lord ever moves people to sin, but he takes his protection from satan away from us when he is mad, and lets us do stupid things.

Note that before the census happens, God is already mad at Israel. If David had been submissive to the law instead of satan, Israel might have been spared. Even Joab probably could have stopped this by disobeying the King's command- he almost did- but disobeying the King isn't a simple matter. Definitely a good example of the consequences of obeying men- even the king rather than god.

It's true that the men that died probably received the greater punishment, but God was mad at Israel to begin with. At the same time, Joab watching his army die as he is trying to count them was probably humiliating enough. David, after getting the report that his command got thousands of people killed probably yielded the same humiliation- his kingdom is dying because he is failing and making stupid decisions.

Be careful with your instruction. Answer this question: Who incited David against Israel. Don't play games . . . just answer the simple question.

Actually, Joab [did] disobey the king. Here is the proof from the 1 Chronicles text:

It wasn't an instruction it was a suggestion, because if you had read some commentaries you would have already seen the answers Gideon gave you

Right, but he should have never gone out to begin to count them at all; he confronted David about it, so he had some idea that it was something he shouldn't do in the first place. But you have to have a lot of trust in the Lord to outright tell the King "no".

I didn't read any further than this quote above. Why? Because you didn't read my OP. Try again.

No. I am not seeking to find fault with our Powerful, Almighty God. All I am doing is studying the Bible and attempting to understand 100% of it. I am writing a commentary (for myself) on the entire Bible. I study the Bible in a timeline, chronological order so that I can Truly understand it as an actual story. After I wrote of David being under the Mind Control of the Lord in 2 Samuel, and then began to study the companion chapter in 1 Chronicles, I found what appears to be discrepancies. I consider myself to be a "reporter" of the Bible. I simply report my findings, and to date, I am reporting things that I've never heard before . . . which bothers me. Our pastors should be reporting the same things that I am reporting . . . they are not.

I'm glad that you are not referring to me as a fool, for you would have clearly made yourself my enemy and was thus about to Bless you beyond imagination.