What is the strong delusion of 2 Thessalonian 2:11,12s 2

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
#21
One of the most disturbing things I noticed and at 43 years old, I didn't know that song from the 1980'..."I need a Hero." was a song about a women wanting a one night stand. What is wrong with me, that I didn't see this?
I just googled the lyrics. Wow.
 
Jun 9, 2021
1,871
425
83
#22
One of the most disturbing things I noticed and at 43 years old, I didn't know that song from the 1980'..."I need a Hero." was a song about a women wanting a one night stand. What is wrong with me, that I didn't see this?

I don't care what it says, I believe that is the delusion, and what was added that Jesus warned about. I think it is over and the creation is going to melt with fervent heat at the brightness of Jesus coming and only those who are his will be in the new heaven and new earth. I think it is the END, end.
But you think the moment will initiate when God choose [now] is the [time] to unload his Wrath according to Prophesy, He Gathers His Elect, He ensues Armageddon, He annihilates Earth, He Reigns 1,000 years to the end?
 
Apr 12, 2021
902
211
43
#23
The delusion has been, and continues to be, false prophets, false prophecies, false teachers, false preachers, false worship, idols, etc. God has been revealing HIMSELF from the very beginning, yet people have been worshipping other gods all along. The further we get from the beginning, greater is the number of people that reject HIM, the one true God, and follow false gods. This rejection will continue to grow until the very end. Maranatha, Lord Jesus ❤
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#24
I mean what is the lie that they will believe. Saying, "they will believe lies" IS NOT answering the question.
At the time these scriptures were written there were two different ways those who believed in the Lord thought. Christ had just become the one who gave blood on the altar. The Lord allowed the temple that was the core of the sacrificial system to be destroyed. The lie was that Christ did not die for our sins, that Christ was not the lamb given for the remission of sin.

The Jews had spent centuries being saved through this system, they believed the lie that Christ did not give His blood for us.
 
Apr 12, 2021
902
211
43
#25
At the time these scriptures were written there were two different ways those who believed in the Lord thought. Christ had just become the one who gave blood on the altar. The Lord allowed the temple that was the core of the sacrificial system to be destroyed. The lie was that Christ did not die for our sins, that Christ was not the lamb given for the remission of sin.

The Jews had spent centuries being saved through this system, they believed the lie that Christ did not give His blood for us.
No one prior to Jesus was saved by the law or the temple system; they were saved by their faith in the LORD.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#26
No one prior to Jesus was saved by the law or the temple system; they were saved by their faith in the LORD.
This is correct. It is only through Christ that anyone, ever at any time was saved. The sacrificial system was all about Christ. Scripture states that blood is required for salvation, it was the symbolic blood of Jesus that preserved the saints in sleep until Christ perfected it and made salvation a reality.

This is spoken of in Matthews as we read what happened when the curtain of the temple split when Jesus passed from this life to pay for our sins.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#27
Can anyone speculate what the delusion that God sends and the lie that is believed is, quoted in this verse: "and for this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...that they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Some people believe that this war already happened but this has not happened yet which this is the time that the devils are cast to earth and they deceive all people who do not love God for it is time for God to end sin on earth.

Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The 6 trumpets are 6 warnings to the world to repent of their sins and turn to God which after the 6th trumpet they do not turn to God but keep on trying to establish their own way in the world so God allows the devils to be cast to earth and deceive all the people that do not love God which is the strong delusion that God will send everyone that loves not the truth, and Satan will appear as the antichrist, New Age Christ.

An example is WW1, did not turn to God but set up League of Nations, WW2, did not turn to God but set up United Nations, and then United Religions in 2000, and that pattern will continue until the 6th trumpet which is a war between Islam and the world.

The new age movement the beginning of the end.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

God warns the saints of the new age movement, and their interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual provided by the New Age Christ, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher and love, and the Christ conscience came upon him, and he evolved to be an ascended master, and believe in no personal God, but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher, and he will evolve to be greater than Jesus, and share this power with all people who follow him.

They will forbid to marry for a man and a woman for population reduction, and command to abstain from meats, reverence of nature, mother earth.

The new age movement will pave the way to the beast kingdom for all people who do not love God where they will take the mark of the beast, and then repentance and salvation are no longer available to the world, and God will end sin on earth, and have His people will Him.

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables(2 Timothy 4:2-4).

The time will come when the world will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts the new age movement.

This is how they interpret the Bible now, and that is why they took prayer out of school and taught evolution.

That is why things will change.

The New Age Christ will establish peace in the Middle East and work as a man of peace, and push the agenda of the new age movement until the world rebels against God.

The world will be split in to ten sections with a leader in each section and 3 of those sections will be plucked up by the roots which is by nuclear weapons which is mainly in the Arab nations for they rebelled against the world for they stopped the preaching of anything that is contrary to the new age movement that interprets all religions according to the occult and evolution.

After that war the world does not repent of their sins and turn to God so He allows Satan to deceive all people who do not love the truth which the devils will deceive all people who do not love the truth and that is the strong delusion God will send them which is a delusion they cannot snap out of.
 

glen55

Active member
Jul 10, 2021
168
26
28
69
#28
Can anyone speculate what the delusion that God sends and the lie that is believed is, quoted in this verse: "and for this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...that they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
Paul seems to have to much judge against Saul types, he was one that killed truth he thought was wrong, his killing was for his God outside 0f himself, call me a liar but 2Thess seems like a lie waiting for God coming like Saul did and Moses followers do that were blind when its here in man.

2Cor 13:5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
#29
Can anyone speculate what the delusion that God sends and the lie that is believed is, quoted in this verse: "and for this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...that they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
Hi Sakla,

Below is the scripture in question:

"The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Therefore, the answer to your question is found right in the context. Satan will use signs and wonders through the man of lawlessness in order to deceive the inhabitants into believing that the man of lawlessness is God. And because they will refuse the truth of God's word and be saved, God sends them a powerful delusion to believe those false signs and wonders.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
#30
Can anyone speculate what the delusion that God sends and the lie that is believed is, quoted in this verse: "and for this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...that they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
You see it all around you today. these people are Romans 1 in the present. They are perverts and believe God thinks being a pervert and killing innocent babies are OK. Thus they believe Satan's lie, Nancy Pelosi thinks she's a Christian, she has no idea she is filled with Demons, I can see them manifest in her, he attitudes her lies, her murderous ways. She's evil to the core, and she doesn't even see it. They are headed to hell as sure as 10 dimes will buy a dollar. ANYONE that calls good evil and evil good is not of God, PERIOD.

All these people who advocate for homosexual marriage, and for homosexual adoption, are hell-bound. no matter who they are. You can;t shake your fist in God's face and say I know better than you, He sees you as a clown. Pastor Jimmy Evans seems to think a lot of thee people will not be killed by Jesus upon his return but will be made to live under Jesus IRON ROD RULE for 1000 years, the same smirking types who have advocated for all those perversions in our midst, having to live under Jesus rule for 1000 years would put a big smile on my face. They are the scum of this earth as per them mocking God and His people ways. I ho[e this is true, it would delight me to no end to see these buffoons have to live under Jesus' rule for 1000 years. One thing IS for sure, that would be a good reason why when Satan is loosed people follow him again, those nut jobs get to live under Jesus' rule for 1000 years then their hero Satan is loosed, LOL. I could see these pinheads saying, FINALLY !!
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
1,381
434
83
31
Anacortes, WA
#31
what is the lie that they will believe?
It might be a belief that the "man of lawlessness" is God.
Satan will use signs and wonders through the man of lawlessness in order to deceive the inhabitants into believing that the man of lawlessness is God.
When a person is under the influence of a spirit of delusion from God, there is no manner of resisting it.
I just wanted to say that I've been rejoicing in the truth from all of your posts and wanted to express my agreement on these particular points you all have made.
Also, I wanted to bounce 2 ideas off of you all:

1. I think...the taking of the mark will be the trigger that brings the deluding influence upon them. I.e., such a commitment to the Antichrist is sufficient reason for God to justly reinforce their free decision.

2. I think...since God is not a deceiver, and He has already used human agency in the past as an instrument of His judgment, I think it is plausible that God will allow, but not produce the deluding influence directly.

I'm not asking for specific hypotheses (unless you have any)...I'm just asking what you think about these trains of thought; does this ring true?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#32
I think one of the lies might be that mammon is God.
I think many people already believe this lie and worship money as their God. On some nations currencies it is even stamped with 'God' on it!

It is said in the Bible that the love of money is the root of all evil.

I can totally see lots of people falling for this lie.
 
H

Huckleberry

Guest
#33
Can anyone speculate what the delusion that God sends and the lie that is believed is, quoted in this verse: "and for this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...that they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
Evolution.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,208
113
#34
Secular humanism.

When I hear the word delusion, the phrase 'delusions of grandeur' comes to mind, and many suffer from this.

There must be translational significant in that 'the man of lawlessness' is expressed in the Greek as anthropos, the general idea of mankind which relates to both genders rather than aner which refers to a male individual of the human race.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
#35
I just wanted to say that I've been rejoicing in the truth from all of your posts and wanted to express my agreement on these particular points you all have made.
Also, I wanted to bounce 2 ideas off of you all:

1. I think...the taking of the mark will be the trigger that brings the deluding influence upon them. I.e., such a commitment to the Antichrist is sufficient reason for God to justly reinforce their free decision.
Good day, Diakonos!

Regarding the above, remember when Jesus said “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."

Well, scripture states that unless anyone had the mark they would not be able to buy or sell. Well, I believe that this will take place because all other forms of buying and selling will be made obsolete, so that this mark will be the only way of making electronic purchases of any kind. Without the mark they will not be able to access their bank accounts to perform any kind of electronic crediting or debiting. That being the case, those people who want to save their lives will receive the mark in order to be able to continue be able to buy their gas, groceries, pay their mortgages, rent, utilities, etc. And below are those people be who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark?

"All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain."

So, everyone whose name was not written in the book of life (which took place before the world began) will worship the beast and will receive his mark. This is also another scripture which demonstrates that it is by God's Sovereign choosing that people were saved.

I kind of think that the tattooing and piercing of the body is a type of Segway to the coming mark. If people are willing to do this to their bodies, they will certainly be eager to have a device implanted under their skin for the convenience of making purchases. Regarding this, if you have watched any of the secular videos that I have posted, you can see how eager people are to have the RFID chip implanted under the skin of their hands.

But getting back to the "trigger that brings the deluding influence upon them," I believe what is found right in the context, which will be those miracles, signs and wonders which will be performed by the false prophet on behalf of the first beast.

"The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing."

Compare:

"And the second beast (false prophet) performed great signs to cause even fire from heaven to come down to earth in the presence of the people. Because of the signs he was given to perform on behalf of the first beast, he deceived those who dwell on the earth, telling them to make an image to the beast that had been wounded by the sword and yet had lived."

So, the second beast/false prophet will be performing miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast, i.e. to add to his credibility of his claim of being God. God will be sending a strong delusion upon those whose names were never written in the book of life before the world began.

2. I think...since God is not a deceiver, and He has already used human agency in the past as an instrument of His judgment, I think it is plausible that God will allow, but not produce the deluding influence directly.

I'm not asking for specific hypotheses (unless you have any)...I'm just asking what you think about these trains of thought; does this ring true?
I do indeed believe that it will be God himself who will be sending the strong delusion (His influence upon them) just as the scripture states which says "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie. And the reason is that "they refused to love the truth and so be saved." Remember, God is the One who will be releasing the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments upon the earth, which means that He is responsible for all of the resulting fatalities and destruction. It will be the time of His wrath. The Day of the Lord.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
#36
Secular humanism.

When I hear the word delusion, the phrase 'delusions of grandeur' comes to mind, and many suffer from this.

There must be translational significant in that 'the man of lawlessness' is expressed in the Greek as anthropos, the general idea of mankind which relates to both genders rather than aner which refers to a male individual of the human race.
Hello Mem,

There are other scriptures that demonstrate that both the man of lawlessness/antichrist/beast as being individuals. Case in point:

"And the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who in his presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

The above scripture is referring to two individual beings. The fact that it states that they are "thrown alive" into the lake of fire, would also support that they are human beings.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,208
113
#37
Hello Mem,

There are other scriptures that demonstrate that both the man of lawlessness/antichrist/beast as being individuals. Case in point:

"And the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who in his presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

The above scripture is referring to two individual beings. The fact that it states that they are "thrown alive" into the lake of fire, would also support that they are human beings.
Hi Atwatukee,

I'm aware of the popular understanding and I don't disagree that the subject is a human being, nor am I disagreeing that this speaks to individual human beings but I am considering the possibility that this is addressing all mankind that, individually, fits the category in the same sense that the commandment, "You shall love the Lord thy God...," speaks to all but is offered in the singular (rather than speaking in the plural "Ye') to indicate a direct responsibility to each person individually. This is in following my reasoning that all that receive the mark of the beast essentially identifies himself with him that either professes (false prophet) or promotes (antichrist) the beast (in the same way as we identify ourselves with the body of Christ as one) will also be 'taken out of the way' at the time of the LORD's coming.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,886
4,347
113
mywebsite.us
#38
Those who are his
You posted this one minute after the post you were wanting to add this to. In case you are unaware - you could have simply edited the first post and added the extra line.

You have 5 minutes to edit or delete a post after initially submitting it.

Just FYI.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#39
Can anyone speculate what the delusion that God sends and the lie that is believed is, quoted in this verse: "and for this cause, God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...that they all might be damned who believed not the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
Catholicism and Islam are a strong delusion.

Both are split in two:
Catholicism is split into Roman and Greek,
and
Islam is split into Sunni (Babylonian) and Shia (Persian). Matches the four beasts of the Daniel who had a total of seven heads.

The 1st beast of Revelation also has seven heads and is a complication of the Roman, Greek, Babylonian, and Persian Beasts that will arise after 1st century AD.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#40
Yes I agree, however I am asking specifically "WHAT" you think the delusion is? This includes even people who are believers, because Jesus said that "Many who say unto me Lord, Lord...he shall say depart from me, ye who work iniquity. Many are called, but few chosen. So what do you think the delusion is? Not why.
Specifically Roman and Greek Catholicism, and Islam.