Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

I've just got better things to do than argue with someone who will argue forever and who cannot be relied upon to understand anything, scriptural or otherwise.

Thing is....actually being right is quite an unassailable condition. Under those circumstances, strident denials are in fact meaningless and irrelevant.

Very true indeed Blovius Maximus

I agree. However, your presumption that you are correct in this matter is utterly meaningless. If you just want to “be right” and insult those who don’t embrace your view, it’s better that you stay out of the discussion. It won’t take any skin off your nose to do so.

HEY! Im a brother

Maybe im being too nice out here LOL

Well....when you are actually right, its quite impossible to be offended....

Ouch!! I am so sorry

Welcome to the Chat room! Thank you for being so kind. Look forward to future conversations.

I know. That's why your verbose drivel doesn't offend me.

It says the confirmation of the covenant is for a 'seven' - not that the covenant is for a 'seven'.

It says absolutely nothing concerning the length of the covenant; rather, it is talking about the length of the confirmation of the covenant.

Well done Gary.

This looks like playing word games. So let's take another look at that: And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [7 years]

If a covenant or agreement is confirmed for seven years, does it not mean that the covenant itself is for a period of seven years? Of course it does. What is this covenant or agreement? It is a covenant to allow the Jews to maintain their temple sacrifices and offerings (oblations) without any interference for a period of seven years. But since the covenant was deceptive to begin with it, will be broken after 3 1/2 years. And the sacrifices will be shut down.

You're right that the Abrahamic Covenant is eternal, even though there were temporal features, such as circumcision, involved. Circumcision went away, but left the eternal promise intact.

But I don't mean to say that a 7 year covenant is being confirmed--no, that's what those are saying who believe Antichrist makes a 7 year covenant. Rather, I'm saying that within the 70th Week, the final 7 years of the 70 Weeks period, an act would take place that confirms the eternal covenant.

And that act was Jesus overturning the old covenant in favor of a new covenant that would last forever. The covenant of Law was temporary, and the only way it could be rendered eternal, as intended, was through a transformation of the temporal features and the old covenant into something strictly eternal, an essentially new covenant.

That's what this prophecy in Dan 9 was all about, the 70 Weeks prophecy. It was about the framework in which the temporary covenant of Law would go out the door with the destruction of the temple and with the end to Israel's exclusive reign as God's People. It would make way for a new everlasting righteousness that could not be soiled with human failure, the covenant of Christ.

I'm sorry you feel that way, that I'm adding to Scriptures. I'm not. I'm interpreting this the same way the Church Fathers did for the most part. They saw Dan 9 as being historically fulfilled. There were a few who thought the AoD was a future phenomenon, but most of them--I would say a good majority, believed that the AoD and the bulk of this prophecy had to do with events around 70 AD.

You say that nothing about the temple and Jerusalem being destroyed took place in 70 AD-135 AD? What history book are you reading from? That's exactly what took place!

You add the part about a temple being rebuilt. The only part of the prophecy that deals with the temple's restoration is about the restoration taking place in the time of Nehemiah!

The AoD was explained by Jesus to be the Roman Armies surrounding Jerusalem in his generation. If you put Matthew and Mark's version together with Luke's version, there is no other conclusion you can come to! The AoD is, in fact, the encircling of Jerusalem by Roman Armies!

You say Daniel's prophecy didn't have anything to do with Messiah! All prophecy has to do with Messiah! And this one in particular. And that's the consensus view of the Church Fathers, as well. We can't all be crazy! You say it is senseless. Are all the Church Fathers senseless? If I am, certainly they aren't!

But Dan 9.24 outlines the very things that only Messiah could do, including the ushering in of everlasting righteousness, fulfilling all prophecy, and anointing himself as the new "holy of holies." But obviously, you disagree, made that point, and that's fine.

From the historical position though, the Apostles were not [proposed] with the option to deny Christ, Accept the Mark of the Beast, or be Beheaded. And we know only a couple were actually Beheaded. It would be more believable and accepted had [ALL] the Apostles been Beheaded.

Example:
Peter was boiled and it did not kill him. So one would think here is the point of being Beheaded to fulfill Prophecy. We know Peter was Crucified. So, I don't buy the Beheading Prophecy was fulfilled and we know the Papyrus of what is known as the Book of Revelation was dated the earliest mid 90's A.D. And we know Papyrus dating is rather a good indicator because we know it changed 5 times throughout history and the Revelation Papyrus was made by the 5th progressed process. So that Prophecy was written in 90's A.D. and what happened in 68-70 A.D. does not relate.

We also have accounts that people not related to the Catholic Church were imitating Paul and acting as Prophets. And Paul had his readers compare his teachings to their for authenticity. So this false doctrine was well before Rome got involved and no sense trying to make this about Rome to fulfill Scripture.

The Prince of what?
Daniel 10 was fulfilled as soon as Gabriel left Daniel. That was not a future event in terms of 490 years.

The Papacy only had power because few people could read and write and could not challenge them. Once people began being educated, the Catholic Church was basically shut down. So, we think Prophecy was fulfilled on the basis of UNEDUCATED people during that time?

I do not see the Papacy as Rulers ever. I just see like today's preachers who teach a false message and when the Congregation doesn't read the Word, they just assume Pastor G.I. Joe is correct.

But I do agree on the points you make concerning the Papacy. But I see if they did Rule, it was during a period of Lack of Education.


And still to this very day, if we remove American Catholics, the majority of the Catholic followers are Uneducated peoples from 3rd World Nations and Economies.

If we wish to give them credit, it's only for seeking out those who for a better term, are stupid!

Look at the Denominations today from Baptist, Wesleyan, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Methodist, etc, these are full of people for the most part can read and write. They cannot be fooled by the Catholic [cross-dresser] known as the Pope.

So if Yeshua's prophecies were based upon STUPID PEOPLE, then I agree it could be fulfilled. But all throughout the History from Adam to Christ, the followers of Yahweh were properly Educated in the Torah and Tanakh. From Noah to his grandson Abraham to Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, into slavery, the people were aware of I AM. Exodus 3 shows us that the pre-incarnate Christ told Moses [tell the People] I AM sent you. So there's always been an Educated system about God's people. And for Rome to fulfill prophecy, God must have allowed his creation to be highly Stupid until the 1700's.

Personally, the people of TODAY are the most educated than mankind has ever been before. It makes more sense for duping to happen to the Educated Peoples, not the ones who could not read or write.

It works regardless, from my perspective. I'm not speaking for the other brother, but only for myself here.

Jesus made a covenant for, or on behalf of, the 70th Week, to complete the 70 Weeks period. It was not a covenant of 7 years duration, but rather, a confirmation of an everlasting covenant that took place either within the final 70th Week, or in order to complete the final Week of this 70 Weeks period.

After all, the purpose of the 70 Weeks was to complete a period for the purpose of accomplishing 6 stated things. If Jesus did all of those things, then this constituted the *confirmation* of the eternal covenant of Abraham, which is what all 6 things were about.

And, yet I provided the historical sources that shows there was an AOD.

Yeah

when did Jesus confirm a covenant for seven years?

please answer the question, your belief system depends on it

1.it says he confirms a covenant for 7 years,

daniel 9 is about the city of Jerusalem and the Jews, That’s what Daniel was praying about, and that’s what Gabriel said the promise was concerning

your people and your city

again, when did Jesus confirm any covenant for 7 years, then break that covenant by the abomination which causes desolation

thats what dan 9 says happens.

1. The Roman army did not place an idol in the holy place
2. even if they did, Jesus said they would see it, how could they see inside a building on the “wing of the temple”
3. The temple was destroyed almost 4 decades after messiah the prince came and was cut off after the 69th week

your time line and the events just do not fit,