The law of Moses , The ordinance of the angels
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this is the kind of thing I’m searching for would you mind getting back here at some point with some more lol sorry but I’m hungry and that was really helpful thank you for taking the time and leaving such a wonderfully insightful and thoughtful provoking post exactly what I’m searching for in this thread things to make me consider , that are scriprturally sound like your post
I would like to bounce a thought off you and see what you gather from it regarding the ordainmnet of angels over the law
“Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.”
Hebrews 1:2-8 KJV
so as you are saying the book of heaven rews makes very clear the angels though glorious heavenly messengers are inferior to the son of God . So then as we continue regarding the law thought connection ton thy is angelic ordainment re thy we than the son isn’t it meaning that the word spoken by the angels is inferior also ?
Isn’t the idea here in heaven rews to completely seperate the two covenant laws by river ordainment and mediation being completely seperate ?
“For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
Hebrews 2:2-4 KJV
isn’t the ordination of angels over the law part of what caused the angels to fall ? Is possibly their fall connected to thoer disposition placed in the law ?
in other words did the angel become proud and want Gods seat because he was given authority over the law after they worshipped the calf like Stephen said ?
sorry I have a lot of questions for you now because I recognize much of what you are saying from the study that I am pursuing within this idea
I would like to bounce a thought off you and see what you gather from it regarding the ordainmnet of angels over the law
“Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.”
Hebrews 1:2-8 KJV
so as you are saying the book of heaven rews makes very clear the angels though glorious heavenly messengers are inferior to the son of God . So then as we continue regarding the law thought connection ton thy is angelic ordainment re thy we than the son isn’t it meaning that the word spoken by the angels is inferior also ?
Isn’t the idea here in heaven rews to completely seperate the two covenant laws by river ordainment and mediation being completely seperate ?
“For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
Hebrews 2:2-4 KJV
isn’t the ordination of angels over the law part of what caused the angels to fall ? Is possibly their fall connected to thoer disposition placed in the law ?
in other words did the angel become proud and want Gods seat because he was given authority over the law after they worshipped the calf like Stephen said ?
sorry I have a lot of questions for you now because I recognize much of what you are saying from the study that I am pursuing within this idea
“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.”
Revelation 12:3-4, 7-8
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.”
Revelation 12:3-4, 7-8
Yes. The Word spoken by angels was through a ministration of death. Whereas The Messiah - given all authority to judge sin (one way or another) and as the fulfillment of sacrifice for sin - spoke the same Word (He is the Word...) through a ministration of spirit (life).
In other words, death IS the payment for crime against Almighty (whether through a sacrifice or a person). But with Messiah, since He was/is king and since He was going to pay for crime with His death, he could freely grant mercy & forgiveness to anyone.
And so you'll have all throughout the Gospels instances where the Messiah will quote the Word in "death/judgment" form, but then He'll interpret that same Word in spirit/life/mercy form (through his pending act of sacrifice). That's the only way it can work in spirit/life/mercy form: through his flesh, (because if he doesn't offer Himself there's no sacrifice for sin and the death/judgment is still required for crime against the Law of Almighty).
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The angels couldn't do this, they had to speak what they were commanded to speak.
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Matt 5:21-22, 27-28, 38, 48 [brackets mine]
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not [murder] [Law in letter form]; and whosoever shall [murder] shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause [Same Law as Spirit through Messiah] shall be in danger of the judgment...24 first be reconciled to thy brother [Same Law through Messiah's Mercy]
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery [Law in letter form]:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a [married] woman to lust after her [Same Law as Spirit through Messiah] hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ [Law's judgment] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person [Same Law through Messiah's mercy]...Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
In other words, death IS the payment for crime against Almighty (whether through a sacrifice or a person). But with Messiah, since He was/is king and since He was going to pay for crime with His death, he could freely grant mercy & forgiveness to anyone.
And so you'll have all throughout the Gospels instances where the Messiah will quote the Word in "death/judgment" form, but then He'll interpret that same Word in spirit/life/mercy form (through his pending act of sacrifice). That's the only way it can work in spirit/life/mercy form: through his flesh, (because if he doesn't offer Himself there's no sacrifice for sin and the death/judgment is still required for crime against the Law of Almighty).
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The angels couldn't do this, they had to speak what they were commanded to speak.
----
Matt 5:21-22, 27-28, 38, 48 [brackets mine]
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not [murder] [Law in letter form]; and whosoever shall [murder] shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause [Same Law as Spirit through Messiah] shall be in danger of the judgment...24 first be reconciled to thy brother [Same Law through Messiah's Mercy]
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery [Law in letter form]:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a [married] woman to lust after her [Same Law as Spirit through Messiah] hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ [Law's judgment] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person [Same Law through Messiah's mercy]...Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
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Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Gal 3:19)
Here Paul was referring to the fact that when the pre-incarnate Christ met with Moses on Mount Sinai, He was accompanied by angels, as noted in Deuteronomy 33:2 and in Psalm 68:17 (which says "angels"): And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
The Hebrew word qodesh is translated as "saints" in the KJV and "holy ones" in other versions, since it literally means holy ones. But that word can apply to both saints and angels, and in this case Christ was accompanied by myriads of angels when he came to Sinai for the giving of the Law. Acts 7:53 says "by the disposition of angels" and the Greek word is diatage, which can also be translated as "ordained". So it would appear that angels were somehow involved in the giving of the Law to Moses. This is not something which is generally mentioned.
However in this case Christ is not the mediator. Moses was mediating between God (Christ) and Israel at this time, and ascended Sinai seven times. So here Moses was a type of Christ who is the true Mediator between God and men.
Here Paul was referring to the fact that when the pre-incarnate Christ met with Moses on Mount Sinai, He was accompanied by angels, as noted in Deuteronomy 33:2 and in Psalm 68:17 (which says "angels"): And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
The Hebrew word qodesh is translated as "saints" in the KJV and "holy ones" in other versions, since it literally means holy ones. But that word can apply to both saints and angels, and in this case Christ was accompanied by myriads of angels when he came to Sinai for the giving of the Law. Acts 7:53 says "by the disposition of angels" and the Greek word is diatage, which can also be translated as "ordained". So it would appear that angels were somehow involved in the giving of the Law to Moses. This is not something which is generally mentioned.
However in this case Christ is not the mediator. Moses was mediating between God (Christ) and Israel at this time, and ascended Sinai seven times. So here Moses was a type of Christ who is the true Mediator between God and men.
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yes amen , the old covenant is about serving God by the flesh and the New Testament is the law of the spirit.
I really enjoyed your post there and found it pretty helpful from me to organize some thoughts I truly appreciate the thoroughness you used and time you took to share that
did you notice , and I’m going back to the ordination of angels , and disposition of angels
did you notice tgat over the ot law was the angel who would not pardon sins ?
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21
now Gid was still giving the angel the commands for Moses , but Gods jidgement over the sinners isn’t there he gave it to the angel , who’s disposition is unforgiveness and no mercy
so then in the law the ministration of death was from the ordination of the angels right ? And we’re seeing not the disposition of Jesus , which is to forgive the repentant sinner and pardon threm based an one of the great points you made about his sacrifice being necassary a perfect man had to die to fulfill the word of death in the law before the flesh law under the disposition of the unforgiving angel could be taken away
so how much of the disposition of the unforgiving angel is skewing our view of Jesus Christ when we look at the ordainment of the angels and word they received and judgement they were given authority to make for himself “ beware of him he will not pardon you , my authority is in him “
so does the law actually obscure our view of the truth of God like a veil when we’re peering into it and act as if it remains as our law in the spirit ?
“And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:13-15 KJV
the veil being the flesh covenant ordained by the disposition of angels ?
I really enjoyed your post there and found it pretty helpful from me to organize some thoughts I truly appreciate the thoroughness you used and time you took to share that
did you notice , and I’m going back to the ordination of angels , and disposition of angels
did you notice tgat over the ot law was the angel who would not pardon sins ?
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21
now Gid was still giving the angel the commands for Moses , but Gods jidgement over the sinners isn’t there he gave it to the angel , who’s disposition is unforgiveness and no mercy
so then in the law the ministration of death was from the ordination of the angels right ? And we’re seeing not the disposition of Jesus , which is to forgive the repentant sinner and pardon threm based an one of the great points you made about his sacrifice being necassary a perfect man had to die to fulfill the word of death in the law before the flesh law under the disposition of the unforgiving angel could be taken away
so how much of the disposition of the unforgiving angel is skewing our view of Jesus Christ when we look at the ordainment of the angels and word they received and judgement they were given authority to make for himself “ beware of him he will not pardon you , my authority is in him “
so does the law actually obscure our view of the truth of God like a veil when we’re peering into it and act as if it remains as our law in the spirit ?
“And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:13-15 KJV
the veil being the flesh covenant ordained by the disposition of angels ?
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brother “Christ “ is the promise God made that he would born a man . So when you say “ preincarnate Christ “ it’s just the one true God before he became a man to give us his word and then she’s the blood his covenant for all nations.
so what You are saying there is true we’re just looking at it from dofferent perspectives he was the pre incarnate Christ I agree, but it’s God in the early part of his plan before he revealed himself in truth so we agree just saying it dofferent .
what about how God did reveal himself through angels though ? And how this angel skewed the law towards holding men guilty for sins ? Does this influence the structure and purpose of the law ? Does this change the laws word and what’s written ?
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21
so what I mean is this seems to be coming from The angels disposition described there regarding transgressors
“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
Exodus 20:14 KJV
“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
Leviticus 20:10 KJV
Where as Jesus gospel saves a person from that judgement and calls the pardoned sinner to repentance not holding thier fuilt against them but instructing and warning them to change
“They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord.
And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee:
go, and sin no more.”
John 8:4-5, 7, 10-11
do you see what I’m getting at ?
Did the ordination of angels over the law , skew and change the word based on the foundation thy at it is designed to not forgive but implicitly impute every sin ? doesn’t that mean we have two entirely different covenants for good reason based on
Gods command , the angels ordination , Moses intercession and mediation for Israel the specific nation, all given after they worshipped the calf and God decided to destroy them by Moses interceded. That testament
and then Gods command , spoken by God being born among us giving us the true word , shedding the true blood of the eternal Covenant , and returning to heaven having become a high priest and apostle and the one and only mediator between God and mankind forever
Doesn’t the entire ordination matter because one governed over a time of darkness and lack of mans jidgement and the other is the rising of the sun and dawning of the light in the dark world a new day dawning sort of thing because the night came to a close
so what You are saying there is true we’re just looking at it from dofferent perspectives he was the pre incarnate Christ I agree, but it’s God in the early part of his plan before he revealed himself in truth so we agree just saying it dofferent .
what about how God did reveal himself through angels though ? And how this angel skewed the law towards holding men guilty for sins ? Does this influence the structure and purpose of the law ? Does this change the laws word and what’s written ?
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21
so what I mean is this seems to be coming from The angels disposition described there regarding transgressors
“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
Exodus 20:14 KJV
“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
Leviticus 20:10 KJV
Where as Jesus gospel saves a person from that judgement and calls the pardoned sinner to repentance not holding thier fuilt against them but instructing and warning them to change
“They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord.
And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee:
go, and sin no more.”
John 8:4-5, 7, 10-11
do you see what I’m getting at ?
Did the ordination of angels over the law , skew and change the word based on the foundation thy at it is designed to not forgive but implicitly impute every sin ? doesn’t that mean we have two entirely different covenants for good reason based on
Gods command , the angels ordination , Moses intercession and mediation for Israel the specific nation, all given after they worshipped the calf and God decided to destroy them by Moses interceded. That testament
and then Gods command , spoken by God being born among us giving us the true word , shedding the true blood of the eternal Covenant , and returning to heaven having become a high priest and apostle and the one and only mediator between God and mankind forever
Doesn’t the entire ordination matter because one governed over a time of darkness and lack of mans jidgement and the other is the rising of the sun and dawning of the light in the dark world a new day dawning sort of thing because the night came to a close
It's an interesting question. Again, remember this is my POV.
[Side note: It's possible that the unforgiving angel was Michael all along who we're later told is the principality of Israel in Daniel.]
I don't think it's the law - or the unforgiving angel delivering it - that obscures our view of the truth of God (or of the Messiah) like a veil. If I may, I think it's that "our fleshly eyes obscure our view of the truth of God like a veil". Here's what I mean...
The Law = The Truth of God = The Messiah
Firstly, we know that while Moses was given "the Law written in stone or letter", Messiah Himself IS "The Law made flesh" (or "the Word made flesh"). That's the only difference between the two versions otherwise they are one ...but the people faced the SAME PROBLEM with both versions causing BOTH VERSIONS to be broken; their corrupt hearts and blindness:
- Moses shattered the tablets (because they couldn't SEE God and so made the golden calf to look upon, even calling it "Yah")
- Messiah's body was broken (because they couldn't SEE Him for who He really was/is and so mistreated Him)
Secondly, notice that even after the Messiah died on the cross, resurrected, and ascended to heaven to minister through the New Covenant, unbelievers - even today - are STILL condemned by the Law (whether they're aware of the Law or not)...because only through belief in the Messiah does His death satisfy the Law for that person otherwise they're STILL under the Law's judgment.
So the comparison isn't so much:
The Almighty gave His judgment to the angel in the OT just like He gave His judgment to the Son in the NT.
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So when WE SEE (and I'm just using "we" generally speaking) the law (whether in stone or on paper or whoever it's delivered through whether it's angels or even when Messiah is standing right in front of us ["...this man gives us his flesh to eat???" John 6:52]), we see it through our unregenerate eyes. As 2 Corinthians 3 says "THEIR MINDS were blinded" and..."the veil is upon THEIR HEARTS". So it's not the law that causes obscurity it's people, people who only know this life through selfishness and death.
Recall that as the Almighty spoke His commands to the people at Mt. Sinai, the text reads as if the people were about to die just by hearing His voice. It was too much for them to hear a Holy God speak His Laws to them (compare this to Abraham - their patriarch - who talked with God as a friend). So they pleaded with Moses to relay His word and for the Almighty to never speak to them directly again lest they die. The Almighty said they have spoken well, which suggests they really were about to die.
Let me emphasize: The Almighty was speaking His commands to them, so The Law was initially given to the people in The Spirit (not the letter) through His Breath (i.e. The Holy Spirit)...and yet the people felt themselves dying as they received it.
So the problem was and is with people and their corrupt flesh and eyes. They were too corrupt to receive the truth of God's law (which is perfect love), and so it was veiled through intermediaries (like Moses and/or unforgiving angel) as well as veiled in written types & shadows and meticulous procedures...and even remained veiled in the body of Messiah until that Spirit was given to us.
[Side note: It's possible that the unforgiving angel was Michael all along who we're later told is the principality of Israel in Daniel.]
I don't think it's the law - or the unforgiving angel delivering it - that obscures our view of the truth of God (or of the Messiah) like a veil. If I may, I think it's that "our fleshly eyes obscure our view of the truth of God like a veil". Here's what I mean...
The Law = The Truth of God = The Messiah
Firstly, we know that while Moses was given "the Law written in stone or letter", Messiah Himself IS "The Law made flesh" (or "the Word made flesh"). That's the only difference between the two versions otherwise they are one ...but the people faced the SAME PROBLEM with both versions causing BOTH VERSIONS to be broken; their corrupt hearts and blindness:
- Moses shattered the tablets (because they couldn't SEE God and so made the golden calf to look upon, even calling it "Yah")
- Messiah's body was broken (because they couldn't SEE Him for who He really was/is and so mistreated Him)
Secondly, notice that even after the Messiah died on the cross, resurrected, and ascended to heaven to minister through the New Covenant, unbelievers - even today - are STILL condemned by the Law (whether they're aware of the Law or not)...because only through belief in the Messiah does His death satisfy the Law for that person otherwise they're STILL under the Law's judgment.
So the comparison isn't so much:
OT Law (by angels) | God | Law of the Spirit (by messiah)
...Rather it's more so:
Mercy | God & His Law | Judgment
Life | Messiah | Death
Believer | Messiah | Unbeliever
(and one must go <<< through Messiah (as gate) <<< to get to the other side of it all)
Life | Messiah | Death
Believer | Messiah | Unbeliever
(and one must go <<< through Messiah (as gate) <<< to get to the other side of it all)
The Almighty gave His judgment to the angel in the OT just like He gave His judgment to the Son in the NT.
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So when WE SEE (and I'm just using "we" generally speaking) the law (whether in stone or on paper or whoever it's delivered through whether it's angels or even when Messiah is standing right in front of us ["...this man gives us his flesh to eat???" John 6:52]), we see it through our unregenerate eyes. As 2 Corinthians 3 says "THEIR MINDS were blinded" and..."the veil is upon THEIR HEARTS". So it's not the law that causes obscurity it's people, people who only know this life through selfishness and death.
Recall that as the Almighty spoke His commands to the people at Mt. Sinai, the text reads as if the people were about to die just by hearing His voice. It was too much for them to hear a Holy God speak His Laws to them (compare this to Abraham - their patriarch - who talked with God as a friend). So they pleaded with Moses to relay His word and for the Almighty to never speak to them directly again lest they die. The Almighty said they have spoken well, which suggests they really were about to die.
Let me emphasize: The Almighty was speaking His commands to them, so The Law was initially given to the people in The Spirit (not the letter) through His Breath (i.e. The Holy Spirit)...and yet the people felt themselves dying as they received it.
So the problem was and is with people and their corrupt flesh and eyes. They were too corrupt to receive the truth of God's law (which is perfect love), and so it was veiled through intermediaries (like Moses and/or unforgiving angel) as well as veiled in written types & shadows and meticulous procedures...and even remained veiled in the body of Messiah until that Spirit was given to us.
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I will respond to each point you have raised so that there is clarity.
I use the term "pre-incarnate Christ" since we are referring to God the Word, not God the Father (John 1:1). No man has seen God the Father at any time. But God the Word appeared to Moses at the burning bush (Exod 3) and revealed Himself as (a) the Angel of the LORD, (b) IAM or I AM THAT I AM, (c) the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God the Word became Jesus of Nazareth. So in fact it was Jesus who met with Moses on Mt. Sinai. The one true God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I trust you believe this unreservedly.
While we are told that angels were in some manner assisting God the Word in the giving of the Law, they had absolutely no influence on the content of the Law, which is in fact the Law of God given through Moses. So we should not allow the involvement of angels to cloud the fact that it was God who determined what was in the Torah.
As we can see this is no ordinary angel. Only God has the power to forgive sins. And since Christ is God, He is also this Angel of the LORD (who is in fact God).
There is no question that many sins were punishable by death under the Law of Moses. But because Christ took away the sin of the world on the cross, those who believe on Him are no longer subject to God's wrath against sin. However, the death penalty for heinous crimes remains in the NT, and unrepentant sinners are subject to the wrath of God (John 3:36). Jesus pardoned the woman taken in adultery since there were no men who could rightly have her stoned at that time. But Christ upheld the Law of Moses throughout his life. Now sins are forgiven when sinners repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
As noted above, angels did not materially influence the Law in any way. We are not told exactly how they were involved, and it would not be wise to speculate. The Jewish rabbis have many speculations about this, but we should not.
No. I don't believe there is any biblical basis to suggest that the ordination by angels made a difference. It is possible that angels carved out those two tablets of stone, but we are not really informed. The main point is that God regarded the giving of the Law to Israel as a very crucial and important matter. Therefore He brought the angels with Him to witness what happened at Sinai. And somehow, He involved them in the giving of the Law: The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: even Sinai itself was moved at the presence of God, the God of Israel... The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place... O God, thou art terrible out of thy holy places: the God of Israel is he that giveth strength and power unto his people. Blessed be God.
(Ps 68:8,17,35)
I use the term "pre-incarnate Christ" since we are referring to God the Word, not God the Father (John 1:1). No man has seen God the Father at any time. But God the Word appeared to Moses at the burning bush (Exod 3) and revealed Himself as (a) the Angel of the LORD, (b) IAM or I AM THAT I AM, (c) the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God the Word became Jesus of Nazareth. So in fact it was Jesus who met with Moses on Mt. Sinai. The one true God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I trust you believe this unreservedly.
While we are told that angels were in some manner assisting God the Word in the giving of the Law, they had absolutely no influence on the content of the Law, which is in fact the Law of God given through Moses. So we should not allow the involvement of angels to cloud the fact that it was God who determined what was in the Torah.
As we can see this is no ordinary angel. Only God has the power to forgive sins. And since Christ is God, He is also this Angel of the LORD (who is in fact God).
There is no question that many sins were punishable by death under the Law of Moses. But because Christ took away the sin of the world on the cross, those who believe on Him are no longer subject to God's wrath against sin. However, the death penalty for heinous crimes remains in the NT, and unrepentant sinners are subject to the wrath of God (John 3:36). Jesus pardoned the woman taken in adultery since there were no men who could rightly have her stoned at that time. But Christ upheld the Law of Moses throughout his life. Now sins are forgiven when sinners repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
As noted above, angels did not materially influence the Law in any way. We are not told exactly how they were involved, and it would not be wise to speculate. The Jewish rabbis have many speculations about this, but we should not.
No. I don't believe there is any biblical basis to suggest that the ordination by angels made a difference. It is possible that angels carved out those two tablets of stone, but we are not really informed. The main point is that God regarded the giving of the Law to Israel as a very crucial and important matter. Therefore He brought the angels with Him to witness what happened at Sinai. And somehow, He involved them in the giving of the Law: The earth shook, the heavens also dropped at the presence of God: even Sinai itself was moved at the presence of God, the God of Israel... The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place... O God, thou art terrible out of thy holy places: the God of Israel is he that giveth strength and power unto his people. Blessed be God.
(Ps 68:8,17,35)
right also anything I ever say is the same just my own thoughts thanks for taking the same position that’s appreciated and also given right back I’m trying to myself figure out what I’m seeing , I have a lot of thoughts coming up and am just inquiring as to some of your thoughts and considerations you may have given to the subject as well
so your preface is absolutely perfect it’s just what I want thoughts and arguments and scripture and considerations to consider without having to argue and correct each other I so appreciate the thinking and am gonna take some time to think about a couple points you Make there and truly appreciate your time
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yes I didn’t have a problem with the term you used or mean tommake a contention oit of the at point I was saying it’s not that important either way we see it we both understand that Jesus is God made flesh the savior
but I appreciate the rest of your thinking there and appreciate the time you took to respond
what significance do you make of this part
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
so if you wanted to give a law meant for that purpose to hold all the world guilty for thier sins you would have to put an unforgiving angels disposition Over the law because the gospel isn’t for holding people guilty it’s for the opposite right?
the unforgiving angle is actually contrary to Jesus of Christ it is said
“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
Acts 10:43 KJV
And by the name of the angel it is said by God
“Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:21 KJV
that isn’t the effect of Christs authority or name it’s absolutely contrary
so The law of Moses at its very core is contrary and doesn’t show the name of Christ
“And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
Exodus 21:23-25
but Christ shows the superiority of his word and it’s contrary disposition towards Mankind
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
a contrary soirit or disposition one tells us to take revenge on those who offend us the other teaches us to pardon transgression and not take revenge when someone wrongs us .
it seems as though the ordination really does applicable matter and that’s why Paul’s doctrine speaks as he does about the law and Christians having to severe the relieves from the ministration of death and come to Christ as if he’s the beginning of everything
“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
Deuteronomy 19:21 KJV
“Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.”
Deuteronomy 25:12 KJV
that’s not Jesus because he doesn’t change from not merciful to merciful he just hadn’t come forth with his word and blood yet the true covenant it seems
we haven’t come to the word of Sinai but to the word of Christ
but I appreciate the rest of your thinking there and appreciate the time you took to respond
what significance do you make of this part
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
so if you wanted to give a law meant for that purpose to hold all the world guilty for thier sins you would have to put an unforgiving angels disposition Over the law because the gospel isn’t for holding people guilty it’s for the opposite right?
the unforgiving angle is actually contrary to Jesus of Christ it is said
“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
Acts 10:43 KJV
And by the name of the angel it is said by God
“Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:21 KJV
that isn’t the effect of Christs authority or name it’s absolutely contrary
so The law of Moses at its very core is contrary and doesn’t show the name of Christ
“And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
Exodus 21:23-25
but Christ shows the superiority of his word and it’s contrary disposition towards Mankind
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
a contrary soirit or disposition one tells us to take revenge on those who offend us the other teaches us to pardon transgression and not take revenge when someone wrongs us .
it seems as though the ordination really does applicable matter and that’s why Paul’s doctrine speaks as he does about the law and Christians having to severe the relieves from the ministration of death and come to Christ as if he’s the beginning of everything
“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
Deuteronomy 19:21 KJV
“Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.”
Deuteronomy 25:12 KJV
that’s not Jesus because he doesn’t change from not merciful to merciful he just hadn’t come forth with his word and blood yet the true covenant it seems
we haven’t come to the word of Sinai but to the word of Christ
Regarding the different dispositions, I'm not convinced that either dispostion would be 'contrary' to Jesus when I consider He is judge of the living and the dead. For example, as Nehemiah noted, unbelievers will be judged by the law, His harsh disposition, His justice, while believers will enjoy His merciful disposition, His grace. After all, isn't the primary difference between the old and the new essentially the difference of, 'thou shalt..' and 'I will..."?
“The law and the prophets were until John:
since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
Right brother believers of this though
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
it’s to believe The gospel the God came and preached like he said for ages he was going to do in the prophets and law
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:1, 14
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 KJV
“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
Hebrews 13:8 KJV
So My point is what the angels ordained was temporary only until Jesus came forth and could not offer the same things and was not spoken as the same word both came from God one through this particular angel who God warns Moses about his unforgiving disposition is my point he gave the judgement part to the angel
this is why I bothered to bring that part up pertaining to the op and stephens speach
“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; ( angels )
as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?”
Acts 7:41-42 KJV
so I’m thinking when they did that and he was going to destroy them , Moses then interceded and God relented from destroying every one of them but gave the ordination afyer that to the angel so the people were eceiving what God was telling them to do,
but the forgiveness of sin against Gods word belonged to the angel beforehand God was going himself with them until they did that
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.”
Exodus 23:20-22
so what I’m saying is the commands of what to do was from God and the disposition that appears throughout the law “ non mercy no pity judge one another , take equal revenge eye for an eye , stone the sinners , witness against each other , ect ect because it’s the judgement of this angel that God has warned Moses about if they transgress his word
and the gospel being contrary “ forgive sins work toward reconciliation , don’t judge , don’t condemn don’t throw stones , repent yourself and forgive “
do you see what I’m meaning by contrary ?
stone the sinner is contrary to forgive the sinner is my only point there I’m only acknowledging that take revenge is contrary to don’t repay Evil with evil those to spirits are completely opposite
don’t forgive against forgive they don’t fit together is my issue why I’m trying to figure it out seems they aren’t the same for the same purpose
“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
Acts 13:39 KJV
One can save the gospel of we believe but the other is always going to accuse us of our sins
since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
Right brother believers of this though
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
it’s to believe The gospel the God came and preached like he said for ages he was going to do in the prophets and law
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:1, 14
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 KJV
“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
Hebrews 13:8 KJV
So My point is what the angels ordained was temporary only until Jesus came forth and could not offer the same things and was not spoken as the same word both came from God one through this particular angel who God warns Moses about his unforgiving disposition is my point he gave the judgement part to the angel
this is why I bothered to bring that part up pertaining to the op and stephens speach
“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; ( angels )
as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?”
Acts 7:41-42 KJV
so I’m thinking when they did that and he was going to destroy them , Moses then interceded and God relented from destroying every one of them but gave the ordination afyer that to the angel so the people were eceiving what God was telling them to do,
but the forgiveness of sin against Gods word belonged to the angel beforehand God was going himself with them until they did that
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.”
Exodus 23:20-22
so what I’m saying is the commands of what to do was from God and the disposition that appears throughout the law “ non mercy no pity judge one another , take equal revenge eye for an eye , stone the sinners , witness against each other , ect ect because it’s the judgement of this angel that God has warned Moses about if they transgress his word
and the gospel being contrary “ forgive sins work toward reconciliation , don’t judge , don’t condemn don’t throw stones , repent yourself and forgive “
do you see what I’m meaning by contrary ?
stone the sinner is contrary to forgive the sinner is my only point there I’m only acknowledging that take revenge is contrary to don’t repay Evil with evil those to spirits are completely opposite
don’t forgive against forgive they don’t fit together is my issue why I’m trying to figure it out seems they aren’t the same for the same purpose
“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
Acts 13:39 KJV
One can save the gospel of we believe but the other is always going to accuse us of our sins
I’m saying if this exists at Gods right hand
“Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
Deuteronomy 31:26 KJV
we’re going to have a constant accuser there telling God what sin we committed so he has to condemn us by the laws disposition so you sort of have Satan standing beside the priest who’s appearing in filthy garments and then Satan standing there accusing the man of every flaw because the disposition on the law doesn’t forgive sin
“And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.”
Zechariah 3:1-4
so if the law remains it will always be accusing and holding guilty the person for every transgression but if you cast out the accuser and witness against them
“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
Revelation 12:5 KJV
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
Revelation 12:10 KJV
then you have not a witness against the sinner but instead at Gods side you have one advocating thier forgiveness rather than accusing them day and night
“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Romans 8:34 KJV
So him fulfilling the law part of that I think is that he took away e witness against us in the law ( there because of the disposition of the angel )
and has become rather an advocate for those who walk in faith but may stumble like David and the rest of them but for the advocate who replaces reg accuser and adversary
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:1-2 KJV
“Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
Deuteronomy 31:26 KJV
we’re going to have a constant accuser there telling God what sin we committed so he has to condemn us by the laws disposition so you sort of have Satan standing beside the priest who’s appearing in filthy garments and then Satan standing there accusing the man of every flaw because the disposition on the law doesn’t forgive sin
“And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.”
Zechariah 3:1-4
so if the law remains it will always be accusing and holding guilty the person for every transgression but if you cast out the accuser and witness against them
“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
Revelation 12:5 KJV
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
Revelation 12:10 KJV
then you have not a witness against the sinner but instead at Gods side you have one advocating thier forgiveness rather than accusing them day and night
“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Romans 8:34 KJV
So him fulfilling the law part of that I think is that he took away e witness against us in the law ( there because of the disposition of the angel )
and has become rather an advocate for those who walk in faith but may stumble like David and the rest of them but for the advocate who replaces reg accuser and adversary
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:1-2 KJV
interestingly enough, if satan stands at Joshua's right hand (assuming Joshua is presented at the throne), then satan is at the left hand side of the throne (from Joshua's perspective).
The ark, being a version of the true throne, has two covering cherubs (i.e. mighty beings, not the little babies that are depicted in worldly culture) on the right and left respectively. In the ritual of atonement, blood of the sacrificial goat was to be sprinkled in front of the ark/throne (where people like Joshua would be presented) and on the east side (its left, our right when looking at it). Blood wasn't to be sprinkled on the west side (its right, our left when looking at it).
If we claim that satan was a "guardian cherub who covers" from the passage in Ezekiel 28, then it's possible he is/was on the left hand side accusing...judging...and the only side that would need cleansing from corruption is the left side of the throne, the side where he formerly stood after he no longer had a place in heaven (upon Messiah's ascension).
The ark, being a version of the true throne, has two covering cherubs (i.e. mighty beings, not the little babies that are depicted in worldly culture) on the right and left respectively. In the ritual of atonement, blood of the sacrificial goat was to be sprinkled in front of the ark/throne (where people like Joshua would be presented) and on the east side (its left, our right when looking at it). Blood wasn't to be sprinkled on the west side (its right, our left when looking at it).
If we claim that satan was a "guardian cherub who covers" from the passage in Ezekiel 28, then it's possible he is/was on the left hand side accusing...judging...and the only side that would need cleansing from corruption is the left side of the throne, the side where he formerly stood after he no longer had a place in heaven (upon Messiah's ascension).
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wow another really informative and thought provoking post thanks again I always find some useful information when you take time to share thoughts
I hadn’t considered what you were saying about reversing the image in my thought process of the vision of the prophet there in those particular verses
the interconnecting thought I keep having is that Satan has always used what God commanded man to condemn and lead us into sin and death by tempting us to transgress
Even though Gods word is good of man transgressed anything he said the resulting curse is sure just as the blessing of we obey but once we transgress we’re done for
so like he did in the beginning
God told man the truth “ your free to eat of any tree and live with me and have dominion on earth but whatever you do don’t eat this fruit of the tree of g and e or you are certainly going to die “
this commandment is for man to believe and never transgress , eat the fruit and die so Man can remain in Gods presence forever and eat of the tree of life
so Satan takes this good command meant to keep them safe , in Gods presence , and having dominion on earth and uses it to cause them To transgress the sire word of death that is there
so what if Satan exploited the disposition of the angels set over the law , and used the law as a constant accusation against sinners so it lead creation to this point being condemned by transgressing Gods word of life and death in the law
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Romans 3:23 KJV
If there’s no pardon made and the angel would have to be removed for this to happen , but if not then all is lost to death
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
woe is man at this point under the law along with creation itself lost to death and damnation who shall save us from this death ?
A “son will be born immaneul “and “he will bring forth judgement unti truth “ he will be called wonderful counselor and mighty God the prince of peace “ he will be the messenger of the promised covenant that was yet to come offering salvstion and he will sacrifice his life for the sins of every man who has sinned and must die as atonement
then the law for those sinners that says they must die has been fulfilled by atonement and there can now be a new word brought forth that doesn’t condemn and hold guilty but now it’s a word that calls to repentance those formerly dead sinners and teaches them the righteousness of God through himself and belief
I hadn’t considered what you were saying about reversing the image in my thought process of the vision of the prophet there in those particular verses
the interconnecting thought I keep having is that Satan has always used what God commanded man to condemn and lead us into sin and death by tempting us to transgress
Even though Gods word is good of man transgressed anything he said the resulting curse is sure just as the blessing of we obey but once we transgress we’re done for
so like he did in the beginning
God told man the truth “ your free to eat of any tree and live with me and have dominion on earth but whatever you do don’t eat this fruit of the tree of g and e or you are certainly going to die “
this commandment is for man to believe and never transgress , eat the fruit and die so Man can remain in Gods presence forever and eat of the tree of life
so Satan takes this good command meant to keep them safe , in Gods presence , and having dominion on earth and uses it to cause them To transgress the sire word of death that is there
so what if Satan exploited the disposition of the angels set over the law , and used the law as a constant accusation against sinners so it lead creation to this point being condemned by transgressing Gods word of life and death in the law
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Romans 3:23 KJV
If there’s no pardon made and the angel would have to be removed for this to happen , but if not then all is lost to death
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
woe is man at this point under the law along with creation itself lost to death and damnation who shall save us from this death ?
A “son will be born immaneul “and “he will bring forth judgement unti truth “ he will be called wonderful counselor and mighty God the prince of peace “ he will be the messenger of the promised covenant that was yet to come offering salvstion and he will sacrifice his life for the sins of every man who has sinned and must die as atonement
then the law for those sinners that says they must die has been fulfilled by atonement and there can now be a new word brought forth that doesn’t condemn and hold guilty but now it’s a word that calls to repentance those formerly dead sinners and teaches them the righteousness of God through himself and belief
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reading this again was even more informative
it brings the thought of why the law has its own priesthood also
melchezidek blessed the covenant made with Abraham and he brought forth the bread and wine of communion
the. Melchezidek simply disappears from scripture as quickly as he arrives no genealogy found no one knows what became of this high priest but the. When the law came to Moses Aaron creates the line of priests Aaron the high priest who built the calf which caused the issue
his line is the only allowed of the law
but when the promises of Christ come we understand the other appearance of melchezideks name in the ot is an ordainment of Jesus Christ in the line of melchezidek and having nothing to do with Aaron and the sinful Leviticle
Priests , who sacrificed to gods through all generations save a few but Christ had no attendance being of Judah on earth at thoer altar it was defiled his attendance is in heaven at Gods right hand
“The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.”
Psalm 110:1-4 KJV
there’s a bunch about this in Hebrews I’m sure you are aware from listening to your understanding and words
but my point is that the law was given under the Levite sinful idolatrous priests , under the ordainment of angels , mediated by Moses and when the priesthood of melchezidek was taken into heaven in Christ the keviricle presiding over the law fell as well because it was the means by which Satan had accused men
so when the priesthood changed the law also changed completely and the new is far better
“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect,
but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
Hebrews 7:12-13, 15-19 KJV
Christs tribe of Judah was also given no attendance under the law at the altar , the Holy Ghost showing us that there was a better service to come of a better tabernacle established on better and heavenly promises of Gods words and his own disposition towards us which isn’t unforgiveness but we see his disposition on the cross as his blood drops down the wood to the ground and his arms open wide as to receive the repentant sinners a sour calling us to come home because the wrath is gone and now is salvstion
it brings the thought of why the law has its own priesthood also
melchezidek blessed the covenant made with Abraham and he brought forth the bread and wine of communion
the. Melchezidek simply disappears from scripture as quickly as he arrives no genealogy found no one knows what became of this high priest but the. When the law came to Moses Aaron creates the line of priests Aaron the high priest who built the calf which caused the issue
his line is the only allowed of the law
but when the promises of Christ come we understand the other appearance of melchezideks name in the ot is an ordainment of Jesus Christ in the line of melchezidek and having nothing to do with Aaron and the sinful Leviticle
Priests , who sacrificed to gods through all generations save a few but Christ had no attendance being of Judah on earth at thoer altar it was defiled his attendance is in heaven at Gods right hand
“The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.”
Psalm 110:1-4 KJV
there’s a bunch about this in Hebrews I’m sure you are aware from listening to your understanding and words
but my point is that the law was given under the Levite sinful idolatrous priests , under the ordainment of angels , mediated by Moses and when the priesthood of melchezidek was taken into heaven in Christ the keviricle presiding over the law fell as well because it was the means by which Satan had accused men
so when the priesthood changed the law also changed completely and the new is far better
“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect,
but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
Hebrews 7:12-13, 15-19 KJV
Christs tribe of Judah was also given no attendance under the law at the altar , the Holy Ghost showing us that there was a better service to come of a better tabernacle established on better and heavenly promises of Gods words and his own disposition towards us which isn’t unforgiveness but we see his disposition on the cross as his blood drops down the wood to the ground and his arms open wide as to receive the repentant sinners a sour calling us to come home because the wrath is gone and now is salvstion