Evolution

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Jun 15, 2021
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No, He did not. He said, “In the day…”. That phrasing suggests a period of time, not a specific 24-hour period.
But you have to admit that it is also consistent (internally or otherwise) with the idea that 1 day could mean 1000 years?
I would argue that the consistency is better with the 1000 year version.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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It sure looks like it at times.
Well played!

No one can prove evolution. Gravity is real and measurable, even if not well understood. I've never met or heard of a person who rejects that gravity exists. So it is acceptable to say evolutionist. For every argument that evolution is "fact" I can point you to scientists who demonstrate that evolution is a fallacy. No one disputes gravity.

I'll tell you how absurd I consider evolution to be. It is said that whales were once land mammals that ended up back in the ocean. I note that there is an obesity epidemic. Some people could easily be evolving into whales. It sure looks like it at times. So how does it work? Does a human in the water suddenly get the urge to swim and not ever go back to shore? I can tell you what will happen. They will drown. End of evolution. I don't care how many fat people try it out. Or thin people for that matter. It's literally a dead end.

Just the transition from cold blooded reptiles to warm blooded mammals is an impossibility. I know something about closed loop temperature control. A reptile instinctively moves around to suitable spots to control its body temperature. Mammals have astounding internal temperature control. I reject evolutionists "JSH" arguments. "Just So Happened" is not scientific. Yet that is the fundamental principle of evolution. Now if God gets involved in the picture, it is no longer evolution. "Directed Evolution" is an oxymoron. It's another way that evolutionists try to fit contrary observations into preconceived notions. It does not work.
A good thought experiment goes back to the basics and builds up layer by layer to see if a conclusion makes sense.

We can talk in terms of species, or we can talk in terms of kinds, they mean the same thing much of the time but perhaps there are subtleties that differ the two. How do we determine what a "kind" is?

Can we produce one kind from another kind? If a lion and a tiger mate to produce a liger or tigon, is this a new kind? Biblically, where did giants come from? Are they are new kind that emerged from humans? I think there is no escaping the process of speciation (the emergence of new kinds). If you agree, let me know and I'll give you the next set of questions. If not, why not?
 
Jan 21, 2021
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I don't believe in evolution because at a quantum level this universe is wave form and this reality is holographic. This means all we see was created.
 
Jun 15, 2021
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I don't believe in evolution because at a quantum level this universe is wave form and this reality is holographic. This means all we see was created.
That's the best argument anyone has made so far!
 
Jun 15, 2021
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I don't care much if people believe in evolution, grativity, the flat earth, quantum mechanics, ghosts, aliens or the loch ness monster. What I do care about is people who say that belief or disbelief in any of these things is a requirement to be a Christian. They bring this to mind: But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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But you have to admit that it is also consistent (internally or otherwise) with the idea that 1 day could mean 1000 years?
I would argue that the consistency is better with the 1000 year version.
I don't agree. I believe that approach is ignoring clear indications of symbolic language. One day is not 1,000 years; one day is like 1,000 years. The difference is subtle but critical.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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If it makes no sense to use a common term to mean something incomprehensible, why does Psalm 90:4 exist at all? It is interesting that figurative 1000 years is longer than the total life of any human (even Methuselah).

I disagree with the premise that "Gen days = figurative" (G=F) is invalid. Scripture can sometimes speak differently to each of us. I acknowledge that there are other perspectives that are valid (internally consistent) but that I do not find compelling. I think it's right as rain if you find "Gen days = literal" more compelling, but that's different than considering G=F invalid.
A day is as a thousand years - to God. A day is a day to us. When God declared the days of creation, they were literal days. How else could you have "evening and morning"? If God was being figurative, "evening and morning" are meaningless. Now there is no reason why each day could not be separated by a period of time. How long that might be, we don't know.

"Day" is highly significant in God's word. He measures our life in days, His mercies are new every morning, goodness and mercy follow us all our days. Each day has its own problems. Lord Jesus told us not to worry about tomorrow. So when God introduces the day as a unit of time, He means it.
 

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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I don't agree. I believe that approach is ignoring clear indications of symbolic language. One day is not 1,000 years; one day is like 1,000 years. The difference is subtle but critical.
And it is according to God's viewpoint, not ours. We are bound by time, like it or not.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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And it is according to God's viewpoint, not ours. We are bound by time, like it or not.
I addressed this in a previous post. I don't agree, because it makes no sense that God would use terms common to humanity to mean something other than what those terms commonly mean to humanity.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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I addressed this in a previous post. I don't agree, because it makes no sense that God would use terms common to humanity to mean something other than what those terms commonly mean to humanity.
Don't agree with what? I said pretty much what you said.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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A day is as a thousand years - to God. A day is a day to us. When God declared the days of creation, they were literal days. How else could you have "evening and morning"? If God was being figurative, "evening and morning" are meaningless. Now there is no reason why each day could not be separated by a period of time. How long that might be, we don't know.

"Day" is highly significant in God's word. He measures our life in days, His mercies are new every morning, goodness and mercy follow us all our days. Each day has its own problems. Lord Jesus told us not to worry about tomorrow. So when God introduces the day as a unit of time, He means it.
An interesting third approach.

Evening and morning could refer to the decline or rise of that characteristic period. One would have to compare to other scripture to test for significance.

Even with a gapless seven 24 hour creation, what is the significance of evening and morning except to differentiate days? Consider the fact that the literal interpretation of creation doesn't have a sun until midweek. Prior to that it was God Himself that divided day and night.
 
Jun 15, 2021
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A day is as a thousand years - to God. A day is a day to us. When God declared the days of creation, they were literal days. How else could you have "evening and morning"? If God was being figurative, "evening and morning" are meaningless. Now there is no reason why each day could not be separated by a period of time. How long that might be, we don't know.

"Day" is highly significant in God's word. He measures our life in days, His mercies are new every morning, goodness and mercy follow us all our days. Each day has its own problems. Lord Jesus told us not to worry about tomorrow. So when God introduces the day as a unit of time, He means it.
Why didn't the seventh day or day of rest have an evening and morning?
 
Jun 15, 2021
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An interesting third approach.

Evening and morning could refer to the decline or rise of that characteristic period. One would have to compare to other scripture to test for significance.

Even with a gapless seven 24 hour creation, what is the significance of evening and morning except to differentiate days? Consider the fact that the literal interpretation of creation doesn't have a sun until midweek. Prior to that it was God Himself that divided day and night.
What did Jesus mean when He said my Father is working until now, and I am working?
 
Jun 15, 2021
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I don't agree. I believe that approach is ignoring clear indications of symbolic language. One day is not 1,000 years; one day is like 1,000 years. The difference is subtle but critical.
What is circumcision all about?
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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Why didn't the seventh day or day of rest have an evening and morning?
God's rest is eternal. The work was finished. It was then man's responsibility to carry out God's will. Of course, Adam blew it and Lord Jesus had to step in to become the Last Adam.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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What is circumcision all about?
It's a differentiator between Israelites and Gentiles. Anyone wanting to become a Hebrew had to be circumcised. Some adults I knew said that it was most painful, even with modern surgery and pain relief. Not something people would do lightly,
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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Well played!



A good thought experiment goes back to the basics and builds up layer by layer to see if a conclusion makes sense.

We can talk in terms of species, or we can talk in terms of kinds, they mean the same thing much of the time but perhaps there are subtleties that differ the two. How do we determine what a "kind" is?

Can we produce one kind from another kind? If a lion and a tiger mate to produce a liger or tigon, is this a new kind? Biblically, where did giants come from? Are they are new kind that emerged from humans? I think there is no escaping the process of speciation (the emergence of new kinds). If you agree, let me know and I'll give you the next set of questions. If not, why not?
Nothing can occur in nature without an instruction set, any more than a cat wandering around on a keyboard (as mine does sometimes) will produce an app. God placed genetic codes into His creation that determines what that creature will be. My understanding is that a vast array of codes were placed in the initial creatures. So, for example, Adam incorporated every race in his genetic makeup.

If the genetics are close enough, a certain degree of mix and match can occur, such as "ligers". Mules are a result of cross breeding donkeys and horses. However, few of the hybrids are fertile and cross breeding is still the best way to produce mules.

No one even thinks of crossing a whale with a penguin. Obviously they are not sufficiently alike. Speciation occurs when a particular variation is better suited to its environment. The pepper moth was once touted as evidence for evolution. It seemed to change from a light to a dark colour. However, when its environment changed, the light version of the moth became predominant once more. As the background became lighter once more, so the dark moth became more visible to predators.

Hard to know with giants. Goliath almost certainly had a thyroid problem, which is the usual cause of giantism. In reality, David was in little danger from Goliath, as long as he did not get too close. A sling and stone was the ancient equivalent of a rifle, up against a spear and a sword. David had 5 stones, just in case. He only needed one.
 
Jun 15, 2021
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God's rest is eternal. The work was finished. It was then man's responsibility to carry out God's will. Of course, Adam blew it and Lord Jesus had to step in to become the Last Adam.
If God's rest IS eternal, why did Jesus say "My Father is working until now, and I am working"?
John 5:17
 
Jun 15, 2021
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God's rest is eternal. The work was finished. It was then man's responsibility to carry out God's will. Of course, Adam blew it and Lord Jesus had to step in to become the Last Adam.
Do you think God was taken by surprise when Adam "blew it"?