The Tribulation

I have never really thought about a Third Temple. I always thought they would want their old Temple back. I watched that Naked Archiologist (not for his theology which is underwhelming in the faith department) but he had a show on about building the Temple and they say that to rebuild it in its original location would require them tearing down the wailing wall. There is little to no popular support for that.

It seems to me a Third Temple is in permanent limbo.

It's more like to build the Third Temple, they would have to tear down the Dome of the Rock, which is unlikely. But there are other ways like...

And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
(Eze 38:18-20)

If I could only spell ROFL I can actually, but I get tired and on other sites, you can go back the next day and fix your typos, I forget that if I go too fast here it misses letters for some reason, and you really can't edit. As long as the message gets out, we can call it pig Latin, I would be OK with it, lol.

Not necessarily. But even so, there will come a time when the third temple will be built, regardless of all seeming obstacles. It is a prophetic necessity.

Two things could have and probably would have happened differently, but God can Prophecy about the KNOWN FUTURE, but could have still reacted differently IF the known future had of went another way. (Catch my drift? )

1. The Jewish peoples could have rejected Jesus and then accepted him before 70 AD, and Jesus thus could have saved the Jewish people and the City from getting sacked before 70 AD. All God/Jesus required was repentance.

2.) The Jews could have accepted Jesus and the Romans could have Sacrificed the Innocent, he died for all of our sins.

Of course, God knew they would reject Israel and that they would not accept him as the Messiah. In truth, I think if the Romans had not sacked Jerusalem, the Gospel getting off the ground would have been much, much harder, I think Judaism would have eventually tried to swallow up Christianity with a sorta Jewish Roots-type movement. I personally think this is why God had to forsake them for nigh 2000 years and gave the mantle unto the Gentiles. But if Israel had wholeheartedly accepted Jesus, he would have brought the kingdom in 70 AD. We see a hint of that truth in the last few verses of Matt. 23 where Jesus says, O Israel, O Israel, how often would I have gathered thee up like little chicks but ye would not. (I'm not looking it up, it's close to that)

I think this is why the Romans are the End Time Beast also, there is a Fourth Beast either way, from Europe that is taken out by Jesus with his Second Coming. Thus either way Jesus was coming whilst the Fourth Beast was in power. But of course, God knows all things.

I see it as others pigeonholing the word(s) GREAT TRIBULATION to preclude God from being able to describe the 2000 year Church Age tribulation as GREAT just because the 3.5 years of God's Wrath is the Greatest Ever Severity of troubles. Both can be GREAT TRIBULATION, this we cant lock it down to only being the 70th week via the 3.5 years because the passage has to fit the prophecy, and nothing fits in Rev. 7:9-17 except those people coming out of the 2000 some odd year Church Age Tribulation period, John is describing ot as GREAT and it is GREAT in that 2000 is much greater than 7 or 3.5. The reason they can't come out of the 70th week is Jesus' own words say they can't. In the 5th Seal, he says they have to wait until all the brothers have died just like they did before they get vengeance. And in Rev. 20:4 we see that those who died refusing the Mark of the Best get raised after Jesus' Second Coming (really Second Advent, not Second Coming) thus it can't be them in Rev. 7:9-17. Thus it can only be the Raptured Church who come out of the Church Age tribulation period.

You do the same thing in your last sentence of the first paragraph, IMHO, you fall back on what we were all taught as truths and just accepted them as the norm. But when I explain why it can not be them via the Scriptures, then you should understand why I had to not accept those answers. They did not fit, gleefully I understood this ft my Pre Trib understanding, so I dug deeper. And it hit me while reading the Gospel of John, ALL TIME on this earth is tribulation, so could John have been talking about those coming out of the Pre Trib Church Age I asked myself? Then I understood, of course, they came out of the GREAT as in 2000 is greater than 7 or 3.5. As in millions of our brothers were killed, as in Rev. 4 and 5 shows the Church in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are ever opened as in Rev. 4:4 shows we have all the promises Jesus made to the 7 Churches who overcame via the Rev. 2:10, Rev. 3:5 and 3:21 CROWNS, White Raiment, and us sitting at Gods THRONE. Thus the Church is already on Heaven before the Seals are even opened. And those in the 5th Seal are told they have to WAIT, and those in Rev. 20:4 PROVE that the 70th-week Martyrs are raised AFTER Jesus REturn, so those spoken about in Rev. 7:9-17 can only be the Rapyured Church which comes out of the GREAT Church Age Tribulation Period.

What I actually do is just the opposite, I do not hamstring God's ability to describe more than ONE THING as Great.

I kinda misread your answer so I will reformulate a wee bit here. (I thought you were saying the 70th-week troubles come at the hand of Demons and men in your last sentence of the first paragraph)

OK, here the Wrath of God only starts at the exact mid-point. There are still troubles by the Wicked Anti-Christ. God doesn't kill all his Martyrs and Political prisoners, he kills 1.5 to 2 billion people himself during his 1260 day rule as the Beast, which is TROUBLES to me. God's Judgment pretty much hits 1/3 of the World, God doesn't want to level the world in ruin per se, this is why I see the Apophis Asteroid hitting off the California Coastline. Now, the 200 Million Angelic Army on horses does kill 1/3 of all those who took the Mark of the Beast. Thus we have TROUBLES via God's Wrath AND troubles via the Anti-Christ's 42-month rule, both are troubles to this world, of course.

Israel repents BEFORE the Day of the Lord (God's Wrath), that is why they know to Flee Judea, the Two-witnesses tell them that and they have read Matt. 24:15-17. Malachi 4:5-6 and Zechariah 13:8-9 prove tHey repent BEFORE the coming DOTL. I agree with your overall concept, via the Church does not go through the Tribulation, but the 70th week is troubles because all time is troubles, but the Wrath of God has a specific starting point, at the exact mid-point of the 70th week. The Anti-Christ CLOAKS this timeline going forth, he conquers amidst the CHAOS of God's Wrath (Asteroid Impact).

These people are IN HEAVEN in Rev. 7:9-17, we saw in Rev, chapters 4 and 5 that the bride or Church is seen there with the promises promised to those who overcome. What I don't get if you are a Pre Trib guy, why are you doubting this is the Church in Heaven? As I point out, the CAN NOT be from the 70th week. We saw the Church in Rev. 4:4 with a CROWN, Robe, and a THRONE, which were promised in Rev. chapters 2 and 3 to those who overcame. In Rev. 5:9 we see they are REDEEMED by God. The Great Multitude is the Rapyured Church because this is AFTER Jesus Raptures the Church in Rev. 4:1, so what would you not call it THe Church/Bride? I don't get that tbh. Maybe I am missing something, its like you are arguing against your own Pre Trib belief. (MYSTERY)

CONTINUED

Again, your TIMING on thee things are off, not necessarily your concepts. The first 3.5 years are NOT WRATH, nor does the Anti-Christ rule as THE BEAST, he's only the President of the E.U. at that time. So, where are these TROBLES supposed to come from brother? God's Wrathstrts with the Rev. 8 Trumpets at the exact midway point of the 70th week. Look at Daniel 12:1-2, the TROUBLES COME, and then in verse 4 Israel gets CONQUERED. Everything is designed around the 1260 events. Rev 7 Israel is Fleeing Judea (144,000 is a CODE for Israel, just like the Woman is), and then the Trumpets hit in Rev. 8 at the 1260 Event. The timing all ties in together sir.

The Church is indeed gathered unto Christ BEFORE the First Seal (now Iknow why your TIMING is off a wee bit, you have to ALLOW for the Seals, and thus you have to have them in the First Half of the week, but the Seals DO NOTHING, this is kinda like the Tribulation being shortened in the first question/reply above, its a MISCONSTRUED CONCEPT. I thought the Seals were Wrath for 30 years, but they DO NOTHING in and of themselves, Jesus is basically shown opening a book of Judgments with 7 locks on it, (Seals) and nothing can be read until all 7 locks are taken off. So, with each Lock (Seal) Jesus simply prophesies in Heaven as per to what is about to befall mankind back on earth.



Why does God need 7 Seals (Locks) ? It represents Gid having this Judgment Scroll sealed up COMPLETELY until it's time for the Judgments to befall mankind. Why would a king place 3 wax seals on a message? So no one could read it, lest someone would die if these seas were broken. So why do we think Jesus opens one Seal and suf=ddenly Judgments ae Decreed? That doesn't go with what a Sealed Message did in times of old. No one could read the message until ALL THREE SEALS were off. In this case, there are 7 seals or 7 locks if you will. Jesus opens the first 5 and prophesies 5 times what the Anti-Christs rule will be like over the coming 42 months that he rules. 1.) He will conquer for 42-months 2.) Ge will bring Wars for 42-months. 3.) The Wars case 42-months FAMINE. 4.) This tyrant's rule results in 42-months of Death/Sickness and the Grave. 5.) This Beast Tyrant will Martyr the Saints who come to Christ over his whole 42-month rule, no out.

6.) Jesus opens the 6th Seal (Lock) and announces God's Wrath is about to fall on this wicked world. NOTICE, this happens just before the Jews (144,000 or 3-5 million Israelites) Flee Judea in Rev. 7, and the Trumpet Judgments happen JUST SFTER, so the Jews REPENT at the 1335, they flee Judea at the 1290, and Jerusalem gets Conquered at the 1260, which happens 30 days AFTER the 1290 AoD. None of this Wrath falls until Rev. 8 Trumpets via the Asteroid Impact.

7.) This is why Seal #7 is over in Rev. 8, it UNLOCKS the Scroll of Judgments. Thus nothing see needs to be Prophesied by Jesus, SILENCE REIGNS in Heaven, the 7 Trumpet Judgments are being readied. If I had 7 locks on a closet, took off 6, and ran my mouth about what is in the closet with each lock I took off, as I took off the 7th lock, I wouldn't say anything further, would you? I would simply open the door. That is why there is SILENCE in Heaven (I hope no one says "HE INFERRED Jesus runs his mouth !! No, I gave a simple juxtaposition).

God's Wrath only falls at the 1260, and the Anti-Christ uses this CHAOS to go forth conquering. Amen.

God Bless.............Bed time.