The wrath of God and then salvation old and new

Transgressing The Old Testament brought us here

“Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.

The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:1, 3-6, 17, 20‬ ‭
“Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Edom, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭34:1-5, 8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so Much more like this but then slowly emerged hope of salvstion from this impending doom

“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3, 6-

promises of an everlasting covenant built upon repentance mercy as David received for his sins and was later called righteous as if he hadn’t sinned at all

the judgement and destruction is coming because of the world but there is also a call to salvation and sure path to life available to believe

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬

transgression brought judgement upon all the world by the Old Testament and to those transgressors God has offered salvetion from his already ordained final judgement upon evil

Men have been born in sin ever since Adam and Eve's bungle in the jungle. This is why we all need Jesus.

Yea agreed that’s why we need to be. Len again in Christ not sin it’s not an option but requirement

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3, 5-6‬ ‭

what you are saying is true exactly man wasn’t created in sin we changed when they sinned and were then all born under thier curse of death for sin.

so this is what’s e operation of coming to Christ solving that is

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Our sinner born in sinful nature has to die by the spirit in the gospel this then puts the sinner to death and allows for the new birthrite to come forth

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

freedom from the old persons curse and a grasping of the re creation of mankind in Christ

“Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:9-10‬ ‭

The sinner is what we’re born into , Jesus death allows us to die to sin , and be born again in the spirit freed from sin .

I actually agree fully with what your saying what I’m saying is that was not Gods design for us Satan caused man to become sinners. AGod created man in this state

“And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:25‬ ‭

when they sinned it became this

“And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

everyone born after they were cursed and ejected from Eden is born under the curse of sin and death God didn’t choose it for us adam did it’s something our parents passed on after they sinned and were cursed in the flesh

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m saying the law is meant for fallen sinful man after that point

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9‬ ‭

What Jesus taught was before they sinned when they were unashamed on Gods presence in Eden before they became sinners in genesis two Jesus taught that law of marriage , where as Moses law coming hundreds and his reds of years later is completely different like Jesus explained because the law is for the cursed sinful
Man the gospel is meant to create children of God redeemed from that sinful birthrite we received from Adam and Eve


in Christ we receive a new birth and birthrite

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-27,

we were born sinners bound to hell with our soul but now we can believe and repent and be born in Christ as Gods children not adams but Gods

God did not divide scripture into old and new, in God's eyes scripture is the word that is given to us.

God did not divide himself into two Gods, and old God and a new God. God is eternal, the same always, never changing.

The only change God has made for us is in how God relates to us. In the old testament God tells us about Himself in stone, in concrete form, in absolutes. Then God improved that, giving the same information from the same God but in our hearts. As an example, in the old way of showing Himself to us, God had us make a mark on our skin to show belonging to Him. In the new way of relating to us God marked our hearts as belonging to Him. Same belonging, same marks, different ways of expressing it.

Same God in both OT/NT but...

Jeremiah 31:31 (KJV) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:8 (KJV) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

We who believe in Jesus are partakers of that New Covenant.

This is the heart of the difference between how God speaks to us in the new testament and in the old testament. God did not change His message or His being, God changed the way God spoke to us.

In the old testament God speaks in stone, explaining the spirit of the Lord in terms they could understand, in literal fleshly terms. Belonging to God was shown by cutting (literally) flesh, then as is explained in Jeremiah God gave the message in our hearts.

Here is another difference the Holy Spirit makes through the Apostle John...

John 1:17 (NASB) For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

brother consider scriptures first

“Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.

Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:18-19‬ ‭

“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I honestly believe you would benefit greatly from a study of the book of Isaiah with an open mind that it’s mostly about Christ.

There is soMuch understanding in the prophets about the old covenant and new covenant which Gods word divides all its own like the scriptures above and also

“Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you can’t sing a new song if you continue with the old melody and lyrics God always promised something new it came with the messiah

he was also going tommake creation again including new people with new hearts that would gladly serve him in his ways because he had made the. New in spirit

“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭36:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

also he made them a new home to dwell

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭

that’s a Christians promised land and hope all things are new and nothing of the old remains it was as though the temporary crumbled away and what remains is forever

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13-14‬ ‭

God was always promising the new things but if we don’t want to hear about it that’s ok too in my opinion

the exact place of division is here I forgot this one

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬

that’s where God divides scripture when John the Baptist began baptizing for remission of sins , and then Christ came preaching the gospel as the time was fulfilled dormall
Those prophecies to be fulfilled like this one

“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:1, 4, 6-

that new thing came here

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it would do no good to believe “ Thou shalt not steal” it’s not a belief it’s an outward restriction for a sinner . But the gospel teaches beliefs in parables such as the Good Samaritan who doesn’t steal
But instead does good for others in need.

the Old Testament couldn’t save anyone it’s not meant to Godndis indeed divide the two testaments intentionally

and this one also

“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13:39‬ ‭
because

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭

And another

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Another thing

“For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:9-10‬ ‭


The law isn’t for Christians we have the Holy Spirit who preached the gospel

Yes, there is absolutely no hope for the individual who is attempting to stand before God in their own fig leaves and ought instead to repent and begin trusting in Jesus and His sufficient robe of righteousness for their unrighteousness.

Wow I loved how you put that we can make some pretty sweet fig leaves but it’s always going to be a low quality generic that falls apart after a few washes when God has everlasting white glorious robes for us

I was recently studying prophecy and ran across the site mercies of David promise for the New Testament . Later I was reading the psalms and came across psalm 51 and it reminded me of the difference in being perfect and righteous And dressing in my own Sunday best

and then what David understood how he needed the Lord to heal his sinfulness and wash him with clean water , and dress him in the finest robes . David was very bold in his prayer .

he had committed sins of death and for a time he hid his sins away d it crushed his soul to the core as he pretended to be righteous but knew his sins

when David became a worthy offering with a broken and contrite heart and spirit he stopped hiding his sins and pretending and began to speak to the lord as a sinner who was repenting from his heart and what I noticed was David’s prayer or repentance and request for
Mercy was him asking God to make him right because he has realized he wasn’t right as he had thought beforehand he needed to be dressed in the garments of the lord

David was asking God for the gospel repentance and remission of sins , mercy upon a sinner who’s heart is still after the lord though he had sinned terribly it was in repentance that David found the sure mercies of the lord

Yes, and Paul added…

Romans 4:5-8 NKJV
[5] But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, [6] just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: [7] "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; [8] Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin."

amen , what we do is because we first believe like Noah Noah was saved because he believed what God said , it’s hen that Noah could act in faith and from this came the ark no Noah’s salvation from the flood

the reason I point to Noah is he existed before the law came into the word through Moses. It is this reality that the old has been removed that allows for no imputation of sins . A return back to faith of Noah’s time , Abraham’s time .

imputation of sins is forever linked to the law that gives e knowledge of sin

What I mean is in order for sin. It to be inputed the law has to fall away from dominion over us

“For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:14-

if we try to keep Moses law , as you are perfectly aware , it’s always going to be what’s written and that’s where the imputation of sins comes from

“For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if God never told Adam “ don’t eat the fruit or you will die “ there could never have been sin imputed by thier transgression. Satan uses the law to accuse and condemn

“And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:24-26‬ ‭

that’s imputation of sin the law is an accuser and then a condemner of all sinners

Christ has replaced that book at the right hand of God and rather than accusing us he is advocating formoir forgiveness and interceding on our behalf who are imperfect and cannot exist under a law demanding perfection of the flesh

the laws very intent is to impute every sin upon the sinner and hold them there without escape so an adulterer in the past has no repentance the law says she committed adultery and the law says “she must surely be put to death “

but Christ advocates and removed the imitation of her sins by law , removes the people’s judgement over her written in the law of stone , and the. He himself who had the right to judge her guilty , forgave and instructed her to repent

if sin was imputed on her by law , she had to be put to death by the people Christs authority has replaced the book of Moses at Gods side that’s what had to happen because Satan was using the law to constantly accuse us before God “ lord they sinned and you said they must die “ doing this to us

“And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.

Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭3:1, 3-5, 7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ doesn’t allow sin to continue , he doesn’t inputenit so that we don’t have to die and can rather repent because there’s no longer an accuser at Gods right hand instead we have an intercessor

“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:34‬ ‭

and when we stumble and find we’ve sinned we have an advocate that’s not demanding our execution but instead allowing for our repentance and forgiveness

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

under Moses law we always had an accuser that refused forgiveness of sins

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭

so the sin was always making our garments filthy and keeping our crowns of shame up high now though Christs word advocates for us and is ready to pardon our sins and bring us to repentance and life everlasting with him