"the remnant / rest [plural] of her seed" (Rev12:17--SAME "remnant / rest of" spoken of in Micah 5:3, who had previously been "[I WILL] give THEM up, UNTIL...") is not "US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," the "ONE BODY" (who will be corporately "caught up / snatched" at one point in time that hasn't happened yet, because "the dead in Christ" has to "shall rise first" just before that "caught up / snatched TOGETHER/AT THE SAME TIME" thing can even take place). But believe what you want...
50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord
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If you think that the Bible is the only one mentioned brings into the sky, then you are very wrong. Some Chinese Taoists who cultivate immortals also ascend to heaven when they are in the flesh.
catch up.............if God wishes anyone can be catch up in the air.
I hope that I am wrong. you go and catch up in the air now or later...................
catch up.............if God wishes anyone can be catch up in the air.
I hope that I am wrong. you go and catch up in the air now or later...................
Okay, so are you suggesting that Christians have embraced what "some Chinese Taoists" have held, because Christians are not actually reading what is IN this TEXT of 1Th4:16c-17...
...or... you are saying that Paul was the one who embraced what "some Chinese Taoists" held, and therefore Paul "made up" this "caught up / snatch together [/at the same time] with [G4862] them... TO THE MEETING [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR" in order to push "what some Chinese Taoists" believed about such a thing...
Is that what you're suggesting? That Paul was NOT a "PROPHET" 1Tim2:7 (of the NT "apostles and prophets" Eph2:20, 3:5), as some do not consider him to be...? (iow, that Paul's epistles were not "inspired" or "God-breathed"??) Just wondering...
[BTW, I do not care what "some Chinese Taoists" believe/believed; I care about what the TEXT of Scripture actually STATES... and I do consider 1Th4:16-17 to be "scripture," as with all of Paul's epistles also...]
...or... you are saying that Paul was the one who embraced what "some Chinese Taoists" held, and therefore Paul "made up" this "caught up / snatch together [/at the same time] with [G4862] them... TO THE MEETING [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR" in order to push "what some Chinese Taoists" believed about such a thing...
Is that what you're suggesting? That Paul was NOT a "PROPHET" 1Tim2:7 (of the NT "apostles and prophets" Eph2:20, 3:5), as some do not consider him to be...? (iow, that Paul's epistles were not "inspired" or "God-breathed"??) Just wondering...
[BTW, I do not care what "some Chinese Taoists" believe/believed; I care about what the TEXT of Scripture actually STATES... and I do consider 1Th4:16-17 to be "scripture," as with all of Paul's epistles also...]
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You're right, there is a lot of different thoughts when one mentions "cult." It's a group focused on a strong central leader with a particular ideology/religious view that is out of the mainstream, out of the generally orthodox conception of historic religious groups.
Anything can be defined as "Christian" simply when one claims to be one and in some sense practices something related to Christ. To claim to be a doctrinally orthodox Christian is to hold to the basic creedal statements that most conservative groups adhere to: the deity of Christ, his supernatural powers, his birth from a virgin, his doing of miracles and resurrection from the dead, his atoning death for our sin, his enablement of our resurrection to immortality in the future, and the standard definitions of what "sin" is.
True "Christians," in my book are practicing Christians who claim to have been spiritually regenerated through faith in Christ. They find supernatural power to produce the actual virtues of Christ in their own lives. And they choose to overcome the sin nature which is in all of us, Christian and non-Christian.
The Christian cults often lack the sense of spiritual regeneration, replacing it with "spiritual power," like the Mormons, or new revelation, like some of the more mystical type groups. Christian Science claims healing power, but it is more in line with hypnosis or the power of the mind. True spiritual regeneration produces the love of Christ.
Anything can be defined as "Christian" simply when one claims to be one and in some sense practices something related to Christ. To claim to be a doctrinally orthodox Christian is to hold to the basic creedal statements that most conservative groups adhere to: the deity of Christ, his supernatural powers, his birth from a virgin, his doing of miracles and resurrection from the dead, his atoning death for our sin, his enablement of our resurrection to immortality in the future, and the standard definitions of what "sin" is.
True "Christians," in my book are practicing Christians who claim to have been spiritually regenerated through faith in Christ. They find supernatural power to produce the actual virtues of Christ in their own lives. And they choose to overcome the sin nature which is in all of us, Christian and non-Christian.
The Christian cults often lack the sense of spiritual regeneration, replacing it with "spiritual power," like the Mormons, or new revelation, like some of the more mystical type groups. Christian Science claims healing power, but it is more in line with hypnosis or the power of the mind. True spiritual regeneration produces the love of Christ.
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What I believe is, the TEXT of 1Th4:16-17 saying that this is "TO THE MEETING [noun] OF THE LORD in the air" (Whom the "Taoists" DO NOT speak of, nor know... so, as I see it, who cares what they think/believe??)
I gather you believe Paul "made this up" to reflect his bent toward "Taoism"...
[NT "apostles and PROPHETS" - Eph2:20, 3:5, of which Paul WAS one... but you do not believe he was... I see...]
I gather you believe Paul "made this up" to reflect his bent toward "Taoism"...
[NT "apostles and PROPHETS" - Eph2:20, 3:5, of which Paul WAS one... but you do not believe he was... I see...]
I take it you do not know the first thing about Born Again.
I sadly think by the time you realize you have been totally wrong, it will be too late.
The Holy Spirit in me, has numerously assured me, that I will be called to Heaven for the Wedding of the Lamb.
My invite to the Wedding is already in my HEART.
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Hello soberxp,
Do you not believe in the following scriptures regarding the living being changed immortal and glorified and being caught up to meet the Lord in the air?:
"In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am."
"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothedf with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
In regards to soul-sleep, scripture does not support this. We have many scriptures which demonstrate the conscious awareness of the soul/spirit after the death of the body. The event of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31reveals this. Another scripture supporting this is Revelation 6:9-11 at the opening of the 5th seal with those souls under the altar in heaven, who are conscious and aware. They are not sleeping in their graves, but are shown to be having a conversation with the Lord.
Do you not believe in the following scriptures regarding the living being changed immortal and glorified and being caught up to meet the Lord in the air?:
"In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am."
"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothedf with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
In regards to soul-sleep, scripture does not support this. We have many scriptures which demonstrate the conscious awareness of the soul/spirit after the death of the body. The event of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31reveals this. Another scripture supporting this is Revelation 6:9-11 at the opening of the 5th seal with those souls under the altar in heaven, who are conscious and aware. They are not sleeping in their graves, but are shown to be having a conversation with the Lord.
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