50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

The error is that, the elect is not the church, but the great tribulation saints. These are those great number of white robed saints introduced in Revelation 7:9-17. They will become believers in Christ after the church has been gathered from the earth and during that last 3 1/2 years, which is the great tribulation, the beast will be given authority to make war and to conquer them.

Throughout chapter 1 thru 3, the word ekklesia translated as 'church' is used 19 times right up to the end of chapter 3. After that, the word is never used again, but is replaced with the word hagios translated as 'saints.' The abrupt disuse of the word is a God given clue to the reader.

In Revelation 1:10, John heard a voice that sounded like a trumpet. In Revelation 4:1 he hears that same voice like a trumpet saying "come up here and I will show you what will take place after this," i.e. after the church period. Rev.4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered. That voice that sounds like a trumpet is synonymous with the trumpet call of God mentioned in I Thess.4:16 which is Paul's detailed account of when the living church is changed and caught up.



No, God's wrath does not begin at the half way mark, but begins after the church as been gathered and at the onset of the seven years. The 3 1/2 years is when the beast is given authority to make war and conquer the saints. The first seal rider on the white horse is symbolically representing the revealing of the antichrist.

In Revelation 11:3 it states that God will empower His two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, which is referring to the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. Then in Revelation 12:6, 14, we are told that the woman/Israel will flee out into the desert for 1260 days and also mentioned as time, times and half a time, both referring to that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. This tells us that it will be in the middle of the seven years when that war in heaven takes place where Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven to the earth, which is the resulting plague of the seventh trumpet and 3rd woe.



First of all, the AC is not going to force the mark on anyone. Where the scripture says regarding the false prophet that he 'causes' all rich and poor, great and small, free and slave to receive a mark,' it is by making the other options obsolete which forces or causes them to receive it. He won't have to force anyone, because without the mark no one will be able to electronically buy or sell. Therefore, anyone who rejects the mark will not be able to buy food, pay bills, buy gas or anything else and that because buying and selling at that time will be done electronically, like it is now except cash, checks and everything else will no longer be valid means of payment. Under those conditions, you don't need to force anyone to receive the mark because they will be anxious to get it so that they can continue on with life as usual.



To accurately interpret end-time events, It is paramount in understanding that the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth as being two separate events, which take place at different times and with different purposes. As I previously made known to you, the church must be removed from the earth prior to that first seal being opened which initiates God's wrath and which takes place at the beginning of the seven years and not in the middle.


Church gathered - |<------------------------------------------- W-R-A-T-H--OF--G-O-D------------------------------------------------>|
to meet the Lord - |<------------S-E-A-L-S------------------------T-R-U-M-P-E-T-S------------------------ B-O-W-L-S-------------->|
in the air -----------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<-----------------3 1/2 Years-------------------- MIDDLE--------------------3 1/2 Years------------------------>|
-----------------------|<--------Two witnesses Prophecy---------ABOMINATION-----------Woman cared for ------------------->|
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<------------144,000 Sealed-------------------------|--------------------- Great Tribulation ------------------>|<-- The Lord Returns
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- to End the Age
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- with His Bride
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- Beast and False
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- Prophet thrown
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|>-- into Lake of Fire

You're welcome!

Mine is a very old Thompson about 50 yrs old ,and. I have marked it up with personal instruction or revelations to me and even though I need readers to see it....I can't bear to get another one!

Thank you!
I screenshot this to study!

That I can understand!

My new one, is a very old NASB Open Bible, and it is hard to find a single unmarked page in it. It was the Bible my wife used most of our married life. I get to find verses that meant so much to her. She passed away 5.5 years ago. So it is special to me.

My personal favorite version is Holman's Christian Standard Bible. They use a lot of names for the LORD, that are what the original language called HIM.

Malachi 3:6 (HCSB)
6 “Because I, Yahweh, have not changed,
you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed.

Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
10 “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
11 I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.


Here is the HCSB on BibleGateway: It is FREE to use online, if you would like to check it out.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi 3&version=HCSB

You are very welcome. I'm sorry that it doesn't have more listed on it, but it is very difficult to create on that page. Otherwise there is much more that I could put on there. Please let me know if you have any questions, as I will be happy to answer them.

The error is that, the elect is not the church, but the great tribulation saints. These are those great number of white robed saints introduced in Revelation 7:9-17. They will become believers in Christ after the church has been gathered from the earth and during that last 3 1/2 years, which is the great tribulation, the beast will be given authority to make war and to conquer them.

Throughout chapter 1 thru 3, the word ekklesia translated as 'church' is used 19 times right up to the end of chapter 3. After that, the word is never used again, but is replaced with the word hagios translated as 'saints.' The abrupt disuse of the word is a God given clue to the reader.

In Revelation 1:10, John heard a voice that sounded like a trumpet. In Revelation 4:1 he hears that same voice like a trumpet saying "come up here and I will show you what will take place after this," i.e. after the church period. Rev.4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered. That voice that sounds like a trumpet is synonymous with the trumpet call of God mentioned in I Thess.4:16 which is Paul's detailed account of when the living church is changed and caught up.



No, God's wrath does not begin at the half way mark, but begins after the church as been gathered and at the onset of the seven years. The 3 1/2 years is when the beast is given authority to make war and conquer the saints. The first seal rider on the white horse is symbolically representing the revealing of the antichrist.

In Revelation 11:3 it states that God will empower His two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, which is referring to the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. Then in Revelation 12:6, 14, we are told that the woman/Israel will flee out into the desert for 1260 days and also mentioned as time, times and half a time, both referring to that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. This tells us that it will be in the middle of the seven years when that war in heaven takes place where Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven to the earth, which is the resulting plague of the seventh trumpet and 3rd woe.



First of all, the AC is not going to force the mark on anyone. Where the scripture says regarding the false prophet that he 'causes' all rich and poor, great and small, free and slave to receive a mark,' it is by making the other options obsolete which forces or causes them to receive it. He won't have to force anyone, because without the mark no one will be able to electronically buy or sell. Therefore, anyone who rejects the mark will not be able to buy food, pay bills, buy gas or anything else and that because buying and selling at that time will be done electronically, like it is now except cash, checks and everything else will no longer be valid means of payment. Under those conditions, you don't need to force anyone to receive the mark because they will be anxious to get it so that they can continue on with life as usual.



To accurately interpret end-time events, It is paramount in understanding that the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth as being two separate events, which take place at different times and with different purposes. As I previously made known to you, the church must be removed from the earth prior to that first seal being opened which initiates God's wrath and which takes place at the beginning of the seven years and not in the middle.


Church gathered - |<------------------------------------------- W-R-A-T-H--OF--G-O-D------------------------------------------------>|
to meet the Lord - |<------------S-E-A-L-S------------------------T-R-U-M-P-E-T-S------------------------ B-O-W-L-S-------------->|
in the air -----------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<-----------------3 1/2 Years-------------------- MIDDLE--------------------3 1/2 Years------------------------>|
-----------------------|<--------Two witnesses Prophecy---------ABOMINATION-----------Woman cared for ------------------->|
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<------------144,000 Sealed-------------------------|--------------------- Great Tribulation ------------------>|<-- The Lord Returns
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- to End the Age
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- with His Bride
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- Beast and False
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- Prophet thrown
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|>-- into Lake of Fire

In Revelation 11:3 it states that God will empower His two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, which is referring to the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. Then in Revelation 12:6, 14, we are told that the woman/Israel will flee out into the desert for 1260 days and also mentioned as time, times and half a time, both referring to that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. This tells us that it will be in the middle of the seven years when that war in heaven takes place where Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven to the earth, which is the resulting plague of the seventh trumpet and 3rd woe.



First of all, the AC is not going to force the mark on anyone. Where the scripture says regarding the false prophet that he 'causes' all rich and poor, great and small, free and slave to receive a mark,' it is by making the other options obsolete which forces or causes them to receive it. He won't have to force anyone, because without the mark no one will be able to electronically buy or sell. Therefore, anyone who rejects the mark will not be able to buy food, pay bills, buy gas or anything else and that because buying and selling at that time will be done electronically, like it is now except cash, checks and everything else will no longer be valid means of payment. Under those conditions, you don't need to force anyone to receive the mark because they will be anxious to get it so that they can continue on with life as usual.



To accurately interpret end-time events, It is paramount in understanding that the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth as being two separate events, which take place at different times and with different purposes. As I previously made known to you, the church must be removed from the earth prior to that first seal being opened which initiates God's wrath and which takes place at the beginning of the seven years and not in the middle.


Church gathered - |<------------------------------------------- W-R-A-T-H--OF--G-O-D------------------------------------------------>|
to meet the Lord - |<------------S-E-A-L-S------------------------T-R-U-M-P-E-T-S------------------------ B-O-W-L-S-------------->|
in the air -----------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<-----------------3 1/2 Years-------------------- MIDDLE--------------------3 1/2 Years------------------------>|
-----------------------|<--------Two witnesses Prophecy---------ABOMINATION-----------Woman cared for ------------------->|
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<------------144,000 Sealed-------------------------|--------------------- Great Tribulation ------------------>|<-- The Lord Returns
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- to End the Age
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- with His Bride
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- Beast and False
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|<-- Prophet thrown
-----------------------|<--------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------->|>-- into Lake of Fire

It isn't the number of arguments given, but the quality of those arguments--are they convincing? They are *not* convincing to me because there are zero examples of theologically clear articulations of a Pretrib Rapture in Scriptures. On the other hand, there are clear theological statements to the effect that Christ will return *only* after the revelation and demise of the Antichrist. 2 Thes 2 is about as clear as anyone could possibly get if they wanted to state an argument for an exclusively Postrib Coming! Of course, Pretribs try to obscure what Paul says by making peripheral arguments about the debatable "Restrainer."

Im convinced. Beyond a shadow of a doubt....

It isn't the number of arguments given, but the quality of those arguments--are they convincing? They are *not* convincing to me because there are zero examples of theologically clear articulations of a Pretrib Rapture in Scriptures. On the other hand, there are clear theological statements to the effect that Christ will return *only* after the revelation and demise of the Antichrist. 2 Thes 2 is about as clear as anyone could possibly get if they wanted to state an argument for an exclusively Postrib Coming! Of course, Pretribs try to obscure what Paul says by making peripheral arguments about the debatable "Restrainer."

Better read my Post #2,496 . Your theory creates CONTRADITION.

None of those verses in post #2,496 say there is a pre-trib rapture. I saw you claim there is a pre-trib rapture, but you aren't the authority on this topic; God is the authority on this topic. The Bible is the word of God therefore I can be persuaded by what the Bible says.

Also, you might want to take another look at what Daniel actually prophecies about concerning the end times. Here's a snippet:

Daniel 12:7-13
7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. 8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

What do you think it means that "many shall be purified, made white, and tried" and "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days"

In your false pre-trib rapture scenario there will be no purification by trial or waiting until the end of the great tribulation. Even Daniel debunks the pre-trib rapture.

Revelation 7:13-14KJV
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Great post. There are so many parallels between Daniel and Revelation.

Im convinced. Beyond a shadow of a doubt....

Revelation 19:9 (NJB)
9 The angel said, ‘Write this, “Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb,”
'and he added, ‘These words of God are true.'

My understanding is the one who restrains is the HOLY SPIRIT. Satan has tried through powerful men to become RULER of the WORLD a number of time in the past. Men like Genghis Khan, Napolian, Adolf Hitler, and others. Each time the Holy Spirit has thwarted his efforts. However, the time will COME when the one that RESTRAINS is taken out of the way, so that THE ANTICHRISt can come to FULL POWER.

I personally think that time is at the RAPTURE, and few people even realize it.

Prophecy of another Comforter will come, and HE WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU.

Deuteronomy 31:8 (NIV)
8 The LORD himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged."

Hebrews 13:5 (ESV)
5 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

John 14:16 (ASV)
16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may be with you for ever,


THAT IS A PROMISE FROM JESUS CHRIST PERSONALLY.

The RAPTURE is when the LORD intends to take those of us who are INVITED to the WEDDING OF THE LAMB and Wedding Feast in HEAVEN. Therefore, the HOLY SPIRIT WILL GO WITH US, and be taken out of the way, so that here on earth Antichrist will quickly come to full power. Antichrist cannot come to Full power, until we and the Holy Spirit are taken out of the way. THEREFORE IT IS ONLY PRETRIB that even makes sense. Will there be church goers left on earth? YES, but they will quickly become born again believers, largely because of the efforts of the TWO WITNESSES. They will become martyred Saint of Revelation.

For those who want to Doubt it will happen, and THAT there is no conclusive evidence for PRE-TRIB, you have to read these verses with spiritual understanding:

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
4 saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”

Matthew 25:1-14 (NCV)
1 "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like (No and's, if's, but's, or maybe's.)
ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to wait for the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
3 The five foolish bridesmaids took their lamps, but they did not take more oil for the lamps to burn.
4 The wise bridesmaids took their lamps and more oil in jars.
5 Because the bridegroom was late, they became sleepy and went to sleep.
6 “At midnight someone cried out, ’The bridegroom is coming! Come and meet him!’
7 Then all the bridesmaids woke up and got their lamps ready.
8 But the foolish ones said to the wise, ’Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 The wise bridesmaids answered, ’No, the oil we have might not be enough for all of us. Go to the people who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “So while the five foolish bridesmaids went to buy oil, the bridegroom came. The bridesmaids who were ready went in with the bridegroom to the wedding feast. Then the door was closed and locked.
11 “Later the others came back and said, ’Sir, sir, open the door to let us in.’
12 But the bridegroom answered, ’I tell you the truth, I don’t want to know you.’
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

It isn't the number of arguments given, but the quality of those arguments--are they convincing? They are *not* convincing to me because there are zero examples of theologically clear articulations of a Pretrib Rapture in Scriptures. On the other hand, there are clear theological statements to the effect that Christ will return *only* after the revelation and demise of the Antichrist. 2 Thes 2 is about as clear as anyone could possibly get if they wanted to state an argument for an exclusively Postrib Coming! Of course, Pretribs try to obscure what Paul says by making peripheral arguments about the debatable "Restrainer."