Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

Matthew 22:36-40
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Hi there, A! When the Bible speaks of "not under the law, but under grace", it means "not under the condemnation of the law" because now we "keep His commandments and do those things which are pleasing in His sight" (1 John 3:22 KJV).

Proof?

If you speed down the highway at 100 MPH and get pulled over, you are now under the condemnation of the law against speeding - guilty as a fox in a hen house full of feathers.

If the cop decides for no other reason than his kind heart to let you go, you're now under grace - no longer condemned.

If you say thanks, and then jam the accelerator and pummel the cop with gravel as you speed off down the highway again at 100 MPH, does that grace allow you to violate the law against speeding?

it’s not about Moses law brother here’s the quorum of apostles deciding this

the issue they confronted

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

thier conclusion after a heated debate

Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:5-6, 24‬ ‭

now I agree with you that we don’t have a pass to live in sin where we differ is we’re obligated to Jesus word the New Testament and not Moses word the Old Testament so

it went from Thou shalt not commit adultery “ a law for sinners without the spirit to “ of you lust after someone in your heart you have already committed adultery in your heart “

so it goes from Moses carnal law to Gods spiritual law . If we move drom
Moses word to Jesus word ot will take away the lust that causes us to want to act in adultery . It doesn’t give us freedom to commit sin it gives us freedom from sins power over us which is the inner issues like list in the heart

So it’s not Moses law but christs law

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we are to believe , follow after and keep Jesus word . The is doesn’t mean now we will break Moses word , Jesus word of kept means we will Never commit adultery if we accept and keep it . And begin to fight the lust when it’s a small seed before it roots in our heart and drives us to commit sin

Jesus word targets the issue that keeps us bound

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

our issue is insode our mind and heart Gods living word of the gospel has this effect on those hearts it teaches us discernment and circumcised our hearts

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Jesus spoke to the inner man to rod themselves of lust , that’s how we keep the law by forgetting Moses law and hearing Jesus word

R U trying to say we should keep the Sabbath Holy?

Yes, notice the verse doesn't say, "On these two commandments we rely, while we toss out everything else".

It says, "On these two commandments hang (aka depend) all the law and the prophets."

A thing has to exist if it is to be in a state of dependence, right or wrong? The Ten Commandments are relevant today as they were when Cain knew better than to kill Abel.

You can't keep the sabbath once you broke it which you have done more than once. So I ask you what do you do when you break the Sabbath?

How do you atone for breaking the Sabbath?

// if the fact that Jesus is our truth, reward, and faithfulness does not permit us to lie, steal, or fornicate//
Could you quote anyone that teaches this ? Just one teacher ? Anyone that teaches the bible ' permits ' us to sin ? What churches have you been to ?

I think the New Moons have more to do with the Tree of Life bearing "12 manner of fruit 12 times a year" than fulfilling a requirement of the Mosaic Law - Paul says the New Moon ritual of the Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross.

I already gave the example of those Pharisees proclaiming that the Gentile believers must be circumcised and made to obey the Law of Moses and Peter's response to it as being a yoke that neither 'we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?' So, that in itself is enough proof. .

I have a document with all of the references to our not being under the law, which is overwhelming. I will not trade the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ for the observance of the works law, which neither I nor anyone else could keep.

In addition and as I posted previously, there is no rebuke found in the letters to the seven churches and not one word mentioned about the Sabbath anywhere in Revelation. Nor is there anywhere in the NT that states that the keeping of the Sabbath is required to obtain salvation.

I will continue in grace through faith for my salvation, following Christ and being led by the Spirit. Does this mean that because I am under grace that I can willfully break the law? God forbid! But when I sin, I confess my sins and He is faithful and just to forgive my sins and to cleanse me of all unrighteousness. No true believer in Christ is under the law.

The scripture is very clear, the new moons and sabbath days will be observed

Isaiah 66:22-23KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

The Law and Prophets hang on those two commandments because of love for God and your neighbor as yourself. If someone genuinely loves God and their neighbor, and I mean seriously, then they will strive to please God by keeping His commandments. That's the big difference between obeying God because of love versus obeying God because of religious observence.

Surface level religious observance to the 10 commandments isn't the same as loving God or our neighbor. Love begins internally and will manifest itself in ways where one strives to not even be angry with their brother or look on a woman with lust in their heart.
Jesus didn't raise the bar and make it harder. He really is just asking people to sincerely and genuinely love God and their neighbor as themselves.

Anyone who teaches that grace grants the Christian immunity from the same consequences of sinful actions that will condemn the non-Christian is teaching just that: a License that grants the Christian PERMISSION to sin.

Anyone who teaches that grace grants the Christian immunity from the same consequences of sinful actions that will condemn the non-Christian is teaching just that: a License that grants the Christian PERMISSION to sin.

Titus 2
11¶For the GRACE of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12TEACHING US that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15¶These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Its Grace that teaches to live for God . I've seen many people who believe what you believe stumble and fall due to sin ,despair and loss of hope . Because they think they've blown it . Whole churches shipwrecked because of Lordship salvation and trying to keep the law . This leads to ruin for a lot of Christians . They don't understand a way out of the bind of this wrong doctrine . Its also a 'baby Christian ' issue because they still need the guard rails on . There tossed to and fro with this teaching because they don't understand they are saved permanently. So they do fall into sin ironically enough because they lose hope . Its a tragedy thats put on the body of Christ . We see Paul constantly telling the church who they are in Christ . That they are secure ,that they are sealed unto the day of redemption. That they cannot be lost . So don't follow the flesh, don't stumble into the world ,because your not of the world anymore. The irony of your position causes the issues we have in the church. But I believe the SDA is just a religion . I don't believe its Christianity at all .There maybe some saved people among, just like the Catholic Church. Saved ,not because of their church ,but in spite of it . I hope that your one of them, I really do .

Are you saying the Ten Commandments belong to the Law of Moses? Because they existed long before Moses and, according to God Himself, they will "stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:7-8 KJV).

yes I’m saying the Ten Commandments are the law of Moses covenant the Ten Commandments “ Thou shalt not commit adultery “ for instance that’s not Gods true law What Jesus said about our inner heart is if we keep Jesus word Moses law will never be transgressed but if we try to come to God by keeping Moses law the gospel will be defiled because the two testaments are as contrary as the flesh and spirit

the law is for sinners think about what Paul’s point is here

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you tell a prone to stealing thief “ Thou shalt not steal “ “ and “ anyone who steals must pay back double” and be shamed . You tell someone who has a heart full of lustful intent “ Thou shalt not commit adultery , anyone who does must be stoned to death by the others “

Moses law works in conjunction with the Ten Commandments the Ten Commandments are the law of sin given for this reason to sinners to be clear they aren’t sin but they are the law of


“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What Paul is getting at is this regarding the law giving knowledge of sins notice he’s quoting “ Thou shalt not covet” a Ten Commandment , to make his point about the law

“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That is one of the Ten Commandments. If you look really closely in chapter seven Paul is showing us the effect of the law to create sinfulness in our conflicted hearts and births a desire for sin rather than a desire to repent of sin

“ Thou shalt not “ is not what God is saying brother he’s saying what Jesus said

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the spirit and truth God was always looking at

“Every way of a man is right in his own eyes:

but the Lord pondereth the hearts.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭21:2‬ ‭

We have to follow the spirit rather than the flesh command but look I’m not saying or advocating anyone breaks a commandment by any means at all I’m saying if we forget about “Thou shalt not “
and look to what Jesus said instead we can know Gods true judgements for everlasting life and then we aren’t going to commit adultery because our heart will be purged by his word and our faith .

well never be right with God by Moses commandments consider that the law of Moses even the commandments from the mount aren’t our covenant

“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s when the commandments were spoken it’s not for us bro it’s certain death like the fruit

“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it also blinds us to the gospel to take it as our law , it’s good and very very profitable but not our law

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:14-15‬ ‭

The veil is because it’s for sinners like he told Timothy

we have to learn as Christians to begin and end with Jesus and his words even Moses foretold his authority over Moses law.

this is important to accept this one verse here I mean

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It was never Moses law that Jesus sent into the world it was his word the gospel all I’m saying is we can be bound in sin by the law and our shortcomings or we can listen to Jesus word and be set free

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus words will never teach us to break the laws of God but the gospel teaches us that we died to the law of sin and are raised up in the word of life to

Are the 10 Commandments valid today, 100% yes

Whoever teaches and abides by them will be great in the Kingdom, and have right to the tree of life in New Jerusalem

Matthew 5:19KJV
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

John 14:14-15KJV
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Revelation 14:12KJV
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14KJV
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Are you saying the Ten Commandments belong to the Law of Moses? Because they existed long before Moses and, according to God Himself, they will "stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:7-8 KJV).

There are people who believe in scripture and also believe that it was not the Holy Father who gave the ten commandments because Christ explained their true meaning. The law given in stone was perfected and fulfilled by Christ, it was written in our hearts with love. That did not cancel God's voice as God wrote the law in stone, it explained it and made it perfect.

You could think you were obeying the Sabbath law by not working, but if you displayed a lack of love in order to obey not working, you were being disobedient. If you cut foreskin, but did not give your heart to God, you were being disobedient.