50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

So, you do realize that v.2 is speaking of what the false conveyors were saying: "the day of the Lord is here/is present [perfect indicative]"

...which is something DISTINCT FROM...

v.1's Subject ("our episynagoges UNTO HIM") that PAUL is supplying the corrective toward...


...so that, when Paul says (in v.3a) "that day will NOT be present [<--THIS PART] if not shall have come the..."


...that he is speaking to what the false conveyors were saying, by responding ABOUT THAT "day" (the one they were DECEIVING / falsely conveying about) and proceeding to explain how THAT "fits" in relation to the other.




IOW, what people TEND to do is EQUATE in their minds the Subject of v.1 and the Subject of v.2 (which are DISTINCT ITEMS), so that when they proceed to read v.3a, they read "that day will NOT be present if not shall..." and INCORRECTLY attach that to the Subject OF VERSE 1', by completely jumping clear BACK OVER v.2 (IGNORING IT) to grab v.1's Subject to explain what v.3a is starting out saying (but they are DISTINCT ITEMS!)...

...just like what Subject PAUL is bringing to the fore ['our gathering UNTO HIM' v.1 (our 'noun-event' IN THE AIR)], is COMPLETELY DISTINCT from the Subject that the false conveyors had been expressing (v.2 'the day of the Lord IS HERE,' playing out on the earth in our present experience / 'a time-period' unfolding ON THE EARTH)


Don't jump back OVER v.2 (completely BYPASSING IT) when ascertaining WHAT v.3a ('that day') is speaking about... or you'll come to a completely INCORRECT conclusion about what Paul is actually conveying in v.3.


[MAJOR GRAMMAR PROBLEM ]

Nope.

"quite"

So, you're suggesting that the Thessalonians were "SHAKEN IN MIND" and "TROUBLED" by the false conveyors telling them "THE RAPTURE is HERE / is PRESENT [perfect indicative]" (absolutely no evidence in sight anywhere... which they could simply "look around" and witness the fact, if true... which would be a very lame claim to be making, and very difficult to be "DECEIVED" by... [how long does one usually mistakenly believe such a thing has taken place... not long! Just LOOK AROUND, it HASN'T HAPPENED, ppl are STILL HERE, and the 'aftermath' of such an event is NON-EXISTENT!])



No, they were "SHAKEN IN MIND" and "TROUBLED" by the false conveyors' claim that "the day of the Lord IS HERE / IS PRESENT" unfolding upon the earth in their experience, which MATCHED their 1:4 current existence exactly ('persecutionS and tribulationS ye ENDURE' [NOW and ONGOINGLY and VERY NEGATIVE]), which made it PERFECTLY REASONABLE for them to BELIEVE [/be DECEIVED was TRUE]... b/c "the DOTL" (always an EARTHLY-located time-period unfolding) consists of:
"a-period-of-time-of-JUDGMENTs-unfolding-upon-the-earth [FOLLOWED BY a-period-of-time-of-BLESSINGs-unfolding-upon-the-earth]" (<--ALL of that)


[they incorrectly believed they were IN IT and EXPERIENCING IT]

They weren't conveying the pre-trib rapture as you falsely claim

So, you're suggesting that the Thessalonians were "SHAKEN IN MIND" and "TROUBLED" by the false conveyors telling them "THE RAPTURE is HERE / is PRESENT [perfect indicative]" (absolutely no evidence in sight anywhere... which they could simply "look around" and witness the fact, if true... which would be a very lame claim to be making, and very difficult to be "DECEIVED" by... [how long does one usually mistakenly believe such a thing has taken place... not long! Just LOOK AROUND, it HASN'T HAPPENED, ppl are STILL HERE, and the 'aftermath' of such an event is NON-EXISTENT!])



No, they were "SHAKEN IN MIND" and "TROUBLED" by the false conveyors' claim that "the day of the Lord IS HERE / IS PRESENT" unfolding upon the earth in their experience, which MATCHED their 1:4 current existence exactly ('persecutionS and tribulationS ye ENDURE' [NOW and ONGOINGLY and VERY NEGATIVE]), which made it PERFECTLY REASONABLE for them to BELIEVE [/be DECEIVED was TRUE]... b/c "the DOTL" (always an EARTHLY-located time-period unfolding) consists of:
"a-period-of-time-of-JUDGMENTs-unfolding-upon-the-earth [FOLLOWED BY a-period-of-time-of-BLESSINGs-unfolding-upon-the-earth]" (<--ALL of that)


[they incorrectly believed they were IN IT and EXPERIENCING IT]

'coming of our Lord Jesus Christ' ===> Second Coming of Christ

'our gathering together unto him' ===> rapture

"OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" at ONE POINT IN TIME

As in my challenge for postribs to post a verse pointing to a postrib rapture.
Nobody ever has produced a single one.

Should be a ton of them.

Instead you guys stand in ashes. In ruination from the accuracy of Gods word obliterating false notions with no basis of scripture.

We have laid out SYSTEMATICALLY, with ease what we believe.

You guys have not one verse to counter our position.

2 Thessalonians 2:

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

'coming of our Lord Jesus Christ' ===> Second Coming of Christ

'our gathering together unto him' ===> rapture

(In 'event' terms, the above two statements go togerher.)

'day of Christ' ===> Second Coming of Christ

So, you're suggesting that the Thessalonians were "SHAKEN IN MIND" and "TROUBLED" by the false conveyors telling them "THE RAPTURE is HERE / is PRESENT [perfect indicative]" (absolutely no evidence in sight anywhere... which they could simply "look around" and witness the fact, if true... which would be a very lame claim to be making, and very difficult to be "DECEIVED" by... [how long does one usually mistakenly believe such a thing has taken place... not long! Just LOOK AROUND, it HASN'T HAPPENED, ppl are STILL HERE, and the 'aftermath' of such an event is NON-EXISTENT!])



No, they were "SHAKEN IN MIND" and "TROUBLED" by the false conveyors' claim that "the day of the Lord IS HERE / IS PRESENT" unfolding upon the earth in their experience, which MATCHED their 1:4 current existence exactly ('persecutionS and tribulationS ye ENDURE' [NOW and ONGOINGLY and VERY NEGATIVE]), which made it PERFECTLY REASONABLE for them to BELIEVE [/be DECEIVED was TRUE]... b/c "the DOTL" (always an EARTHLY-located time-period unfolding) consists of:
"a-period-of-time-of-JUDGMENTs-unfolding-upon-the-earth [FOLLOWED BY a-period-of-time-of-BLESSINGs-unfolding-upon-the-earth]" (<--ALL of that)


[they incorrectly believed they were IN IT and EXPERIENCING IT]

Perhaps the Day of Christ will be His THIRD coming: when He comes to Armageddon.

You do realize the Greek (Apostasia) isn't a pre-trib rapture to heaven

Sure it's not the 5th coming?

How do you know it isn't?

Strong's definitions for each word in this compound word:

The question is, CAN this word mean something else? It is a compound word - "apo" and "stasia."

Here is what Strong's says about "apo:

of separation... ...of local separation,
...after verbs of motion from a place i.e. of departing, of fleeing,...

of separation of a part from the whole......where of a whole some part is taken

of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed

of a state of separation, that is of distance...physical, of distance of place



At the rapture, will some part of the entire population be taken? You know the answer is YES.
Will those taken be separated by DISTANCE? Again the answer is YES.
The other part of the compound word 'stasia" is where we get "stationary" or "not moving" from.

Putting these two words together then can certainly mean a part of a whole group suddenly moved from where they were to a new location, and it happen so fast, the rest of the whole group seems stationary - not moving.

Speaking of what is in scripture:
He came once, and was nailed to a cross.
He will come the second time but only to the air as shown in 1 Thes. 4 and in 1 Cor. 15.
He will come the third time to Armageddon as shown in Rev. 19.

Yes, I am quite sure! ;-)

Now you have a resurrection order problem that contradicts pre-trib rapture.

"Then there is 1 Cor 15:23 that clearly indicates 2 "groups" in the resurrection. Christ the firstfruits, and then "those who belong to Him" Sounds like a single group in "those who belong to Him".

Then there's Rev 20:5 which speaks of tribulational martyrs who are in "the FIRST resurrection".

Please explain how they are in "the first resurrection" when you believe there is another one that is 7 years BEFORE theirs."
Thanks @FreeGrace2

Thats sure a lot of working around other verses.

Force fitting weak dynamics.

Bad exegesis.

How do you know it isn't?

Strong's definitions for each word in this compound word:

The question is, CAN this word mean something else? It is a compound word - "apo" and "stasia."

Here is what Strong's says about "apo:

of separation... ...of local separation,
...after verbs of motion from a place i.e. of departing, of fleeing,...

of separation of a part from the whole......where of a whole some part is taken

of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed

of a state of separation, that is of distance...physical, of distance of place



At the rapture, will some part of the entire population be taken? You know the answer is YES.
Will those taken be separated by DISTANCE? Again the answer is YES.
The other part of the compound word 'stasia" is where we get "stationary" or "not moving" from.

Putting these two words together then can certainly mean a part of a whole group suddenly moved from where they were to a new location, and it happen so fast, the rest of the whole group seems stationary - not moving.

But we cannot and should not form doctrine from one word, as in pulling it out of its context. We must determine its meaning IN its context.

Paul wrote this passage with parallels:

Verse 3: Apostasisa - the man of sin revealed
Verse 6: Something restraining - might be revealed
Verses 7-8: restraining force removed - the man of sin revealed

There can be NO DOUBT that Paul's intent in "Apostasia" has to do with the man of sin being revealed. Therefore it has to do with the restraining force being "taken out of the way.

Then Paul wrote: "And now you know what is restraining him [from being revealed at this time " (AMP)

Why would Paul write this UNLESS He had just told us what or who this restraining power was? In fact, Paul DID tell us, but did it in a cloaked manner, then wrote "now you know" so people would go back and read again and discover his meaning. Just guessing, because Paul did not tell us, but is it possible he wrote this in a manner that the only people who would really understand would be those who had read his first letter?

It is an absolute truth that in verse 3b, Paul shows us the man of sin revealed.
It is just as much truth that in verses 6-8 he explains the only way that could happen: the power restraining - that power we are suppose to know now - has been taken out of the way.

A good student of the bible should then ask: HOW Paul" HOW or WHERE do you show this restraining power "taken out of the way" somewhere in verse 3a?

Is a "falling away" (from what we can't tell) equal to "taken out of the way?"
Could a "falling away" possibly in any way be a restraining force preventing the man of sin from being revealed too soon?

I don't see how either of these is possible. Yet it seems that Paul's intent is that hidden in "apostasia" must be that power restraining being "taken out of the way" so that in 3b the man of sin is revealed.

"Then there is 1 Cor 15:23 that clearly indicates 2 "groups" in the resurrection. Christ the firstfruits, and then "those who belong to Him" Sounds like a single group in "those who belong to Him".