Our responses to claims of Holy Spirit Bapitisms.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L

Live4Him

Guest
#141
#141
Guojing said:
Alright then, so you do agree that we cannot anyhow claim promises given to Israel for us.

That was all I was trying to say.
Click to expand...
I have to head out in a minute, but I'll quickly say this:

We need to know who "Israel" truly is to truly understand the promises.

To my understanding, which can very easily be backed by rightly-divided scripture, Jesus Christ is the true Israel, and, therefore, those who truly belong to him are a part of what Paul called "the Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16).
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#142
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#142
Live4Him said:
I have to head out in a minute, but I'll quickly say this:

We need to know who "Israel" truly is to truly understand the promises.

To my understanding, which can very easily be backed by rightly-divided scripture, Jesus Christ is the true Israel, and, therefore, those who truly belong to him are a part of what Paul called "the Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16).
Click to expand...
I mean, so long as you agree not every promise found in the Bible is for a believer today in the Body of Christ, I am fine.
 
Lookupnotback

Lookupnotback

Active member
#143
Sep 26, 2020
169
47
28
#143
Lafftur said:
If a person resists, quenches and grieves the Holy Spirit then, perhaps they will not be able to receive the words that would have been given to them.....:unsure:

Holy Spirit, You are welcome to flow freely in and through me whenever the Father desires, amen! :love:(y)

May I always have an answer for those that ask why I am filled with hope and not fearful of death! :love:(y)
Click to expand...
Holy Spirit, You are welcome to flow freely in and through me whenever the Father desires, amen! :love:(y)
What do you mean by this exactly?-)
 
R

ronair

Banned
#144
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
28
#144
SophieT said:
I guess you don't know what word salad means. Alotta words without a whole lotta meaning. You're welcome. (snaps suspenders)
Click to expand...
SophieT said:
I guess you don't know what word salad means. Alotta words without a whole lotta meaning. You're welcome. (snaps suspenders)
Click to expand...
I guess you don't know what straight forward means, I hope this helps:

straight·for·ward
(strāt-fôr′wərd)
adj.
1.
a. Honest and frank: "He was straightforward if the news was bad" (Alec Wilkinson). See Synonyms at frank1.
b. Free from ambiguity or pretense; plain and open: straightforward advice.
2. Easy to accomplish, identify, or understand; not complicated, uncertain, or involved: a straightforward car repair; a disease with straightforward symptoms; a straightforward approach to the problem.
3. Proceeding in a straight course; direct.

The salad fork reference may have just went over your head.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#147
#147
ronair said:
I guess you don't know what straight forward means, I hope this helps:

straight·for·ward
(strāt-fôr′wərd)
adj.
1.
a. Honest and frank: "He was straightforward if the news was bad" (Alec Wilkinson). See Synonyms at frank1.
b. Free from ambiguity or pretense; plain and open: straightforward advice.
2. Easy to accomplish, identify, or understand; not complicated, uncertain, or involved: a straightforward car repair; a disease with straightforward symptoms; a straightforward approach to the problem.
3. Proceeding in a straight course; direct.

The salad fork reference may have just went over your head.
Click to expand...
right. so, what was your gripe with what I wrote? (shrugs and meanders off)
 
R

ronair

Banned
#148
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
28
#148
SophieT said:
right. so, what was your gripe with what I wrote? (shrugs and meanders off)
Click to expand...
"I have noticed they also make a word salad on occasion. But you wouldn't know about that"

Who is the "you" in your above sentence?
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#149
#149
ronair said:
"I have noticed they also make a word salad on occasion. But you wouldn't know about that"

Who is the "you" in your above sentence?
Click to expand...
3 guesses and the first 2 don't count ;)

ps. you are taking this waaaay too seriously
 
R

ronair

Banned
#151
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
28
#151
Gideon300 said:
There is the real and the fake, sometimes in the same meeting. I was a member of a charismatic church for some years and youth leader at a Pentecostal church for several years also. I found there is a profound lack of discernment among many Pentecostals. Some denominations teach that a Christian cannot have a demon. This is false. It's no wonder that so many are deceived, because they make a false assumption that everything that is not natural must be of God. However, that does not make the real experience invalid. The book of Acts makes it clear that receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a valid and separate gift. It's a shame that there is so much emphasis on tongues. It's the least of the gifts and all too easy to counterfeit.

I was baptised in the Holy Spirit Christmas Eve 1974. I wrestled with the idea for 3 years prior. I was eventually convinced and received this great blessing. There is zero biblical justification for rejecting the gift. It's needed more than ever as the church becomes so much weaker and more insipid.
Click to expand...
So they are faking it but not you.

Is this your point?
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#152
Sep 2, 2020
13,947
5,648
113
#152
ronair said:
Since modern day claims of Holy Spirit Baptisms are intangible and non-physical, how much validity should such claims be given?
Click to expand...
Basically you are asking if people should have faith still in the word of God ?

if you look at the physical things faith doesn’t exist but if you look at what God said , there is faith .

Christianity is not for those who need physical proof of things , but for those who are willing to believe the word of thier God that cannot be seen or touched

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,

and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1, 3, 6‬ ‭

without believing the things we can’t see and touch there’s no faith for salvation .

So should anyone believe even though others can’t see proof of what God said ? Yes indeed because of faith

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41, 46-47‬ ‭

that promise spoken of is the Holy Ghost

“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:7-8, 14, 27, 29‬ ‭

to disbelieve and draw into question the receiving of the Holy Ghost through the gospel misunderstands the New Testament completely and the principle of faith the Holy Spirit is our inheritance and the central subject matter of the Bible
 
R

ronair

Banned
#153
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
28
#153
Pilgrimshope said:
Basically you are asking if people should have faith still in the word of God ?

if you look at the physical things faith doesn’t exist but if you look at what God said , there is faith .

Christianity is not for those who need physical proof of things , but for those who are willing to believe the word of thier God that cannot be seen or touched

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,

and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1, 3, 6‬ ‭

without believing the things we can’t see and touch there’s no faith for salvation .

So should anyone believe even though others can’t see proof of what God said ? Yes indeed because of faith

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41, 46-47‬ ‭

that promise spoken of is the Holy Ghost

“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:7-8, 14, 27, 29‬ ‭

to disbelieve and draw into question the receiving of the Holy Ghost through the gospel misunderstands the New Testament completely and the principle of faith the Holy Spirit is our inheritance and the central subject matter of the Bible
Click to expand...
WOW! This much effort but nothing about the point of the OP!

Yes, I believe in the concept of Holy Spirit Baptism, I believe that I have been baptized into the Holy Spirit myself.

The OP is about how much faith should we put into the claims of people not God Himself or His word.

How could you miss this???
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#154
Sep 2, 2020
13,947
5,648
113
#154
ronair said:
WOW! This much effort but nothing about the point of the OP!

Yes, I believe in the concept of Holy Spirit Baptism, I believe that I have been baptized into the Holy Spirit myself.

The OP is about how much faith should we put into the claims of people not God Himself or His word.

How could you miss this???
Click to expand...
how could you
Miss that there is no proof of your Holy Spirit baptism other than your own word ?

if I don’t trust your word about it I’m doing you a great disservice and offense that I have no place doing

that’s sort of what the post was about that I left to simplify

we have to trust Gods word , and if we do I have to take your word also about your own receiving the Holy Spirit . And you have to take mine . And also why would it matter to you if I believed your word about it ? And why would it matter to Me whether you believed my word ?

there is no physical proof there’s only your word , you said you believe you received the spirit so therefore as far as I think you must have and I’m happy for you

there’s only the proof of someone’s word unless we are close enough to their life to have a better judgement concerning thier life’s actions
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#155
#155
I would say you would have to determine what is the "baptism of the spirit"

Then I would also suggest. What does it mean to be "anointed by the spirit"

Then hopefully you can determine by this what is real or not
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#156
May 23, 2012
13,006
4,313
113
#156
Gideon300 said:
There is the real and the fake, sometimes in the same meeting. I was a member of a charismatic church for some years and youth leader at a Pentecostal church for several years also. I found there is a profound lack of discernment among many Pentecostals. Some denominations teach that a Christian cannot have a demon. This is false. It's no wonder that so many are deceived, because they make a false assumption that everything that is not natural must be of God. However, that does not make the real experience invalid. The book of Acts makes it clear that receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a valid and separate gift. It's a shame that there is so much emphasis on tongues. It's the least of the gifts and all too easy to counterfeit.

I was baptised in the Holy Spirit Christmas Eve 1974. I wrestled with the idea for 3 years prior. I was eventually convinced and received this great blessing. There is zero biblical justification for rejecting the gift. It's needed more than ever as the church becomes so much weaker and more insipid.
Click to expand...

It is not that some denominations teach that a Christian cannot have a demon, it that Nowhere in the bible do you see a Christian demon-possessed. The Holy Spirit doesn't share with darkness. Where there is the Light of GOD there IS NO DARKNESS! Please read John chapter three. What you have found is an opinion that is not founded in truth.

Ane 1cor chapter 12- 13 contextually doesn't say it is the least gift. No Gift of the Holy Spirit is to be lambasted.
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

Senior Member
#158
Apr 18, 2017
6,886
3,631
113
#158
Lookupnotback said:
"Holy Spirit, You are welcome to flow freely in and through me whenever the Father desires, amen!" :love:(y)

What do you mean by this exactly?-)
Click to expand...
Hello Lookupnotback,

The same way the Holy Spirit would flow through Jesus Christ when He was on the Earth. However, Jesus has the Holy Spirit WITHOUT measure, we have the Holy Spirit WITH measure.

When Jesus Christ was water baptized by John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form of a dove then, drove Him out to the wilderness to be tempted/tested by Satan. Likewise, we are to be led and guided by the Holy Spirit and minister to others with God's Word and God's Holy Spirit - just like Jesus did.

When we pray for the sick, our words need to be God's Words and if they are, then the Holy Spirit will flow with the Words and accomplish what was spoken. However, if we get in our flesh/pride and try to speak healing over someone, the Holy Spirit will NOT flow because He only flows according to the Father's Will and God's Words, not ours.

The best way to NOT quench or grieve the Holy Spirit is to stay humble with God and people and love God above all things and everyone. Being thankful and giving God ALL the glory helps us to stay humble. It's important to always understand we are NOTHING without Him yet, He absolutely loves and cherishes us deeply!
 
R

ronair

Banned
#159
Jun 18, 2020
111
30
28
#159
Pilgrimshope said:
how could you
Miss that there is no proof of your Holy Spirit baptism other than your own word ?

if I don’t trust your word about it I’m doing you a great disservice and offense that I have no place doing

that’s sort of what the post was about that I left to simplify

we have to trust Gods word , and if we do I have to take your word also about your own receiving the Holy Spirit . And you have to take mine . And also why would it matter to you if I believed your word about it ? And why would it matter to Me whether you believed my word ?

there is no physical proof there’s only your word , you said you believe you received the spirit so therefore as far as I think you must have and I’m happy for you

there’s only the proof of someone’s word unless we are close enough to their life to have a better judgement concerning thier life’s actions
Click to expand...
"how could you
Miss that there is no proof of your Holy Spirit baptism other than your own word ?" I did not miss it, I am quite aware that there is no evidence of my or anyone else's claim of Holy Spirit Baptism.

"we have to trust Gods word , and if we do I have to take your word also about your own receiving the Holy Spirit . And you have to take mine ." Again, this is not about trusting Gods word but the claims of others and no, neither one of us is bound in trusting each others claims. Thank God.

"And also why would it matter to you if I believed your word about it ? And why would it matter to Me whether you believed my word ?" It matters a great deal!! Putting your confidence or trust into a person's claim implies much. Do I really need to spell this out. Jesus Christ's Holy Spirit Baptism was presented with physical evidence giving substance and authority to His words. Do you accept the authority of people who claim the same Holy Spirit Baptism?

To make my point as clear as possible, regardless of who is making it, claims of Holy Spirit Baptisms hold no validity unto themselves. Presenting such claims are attempts at legitimizing a mindset or theology.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.