It is an indisputable fact that the Scripture indicates that New Covenant blessings will come upon ethnic Israel. In literally hundreds of times and places. To willfully thwart or deny Gods mercy blessings plan and program for His people that He foreknew......is Satanic. And I say that because Satan is trying to do exactly that. I would be very careful about dealing with that particular subject matter. And heed what the Bible says about it......and believe it. And rejoice in it.
50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord
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I have to tell you that I am even more fully convinced of the pretrib rapture that I was before the last couple of threads. If that was even possible.
I credit TheDivineWatermark and his/her outstanding exegesis for this renewed confidence. Any niggling questions I had earlier have been fully satisfied and answered.
I commend you to his/her postings. Give it time you're going to get it eventually......
I credit TheDivineWatermark and his/her outstanding exegesis for this renewed confidence. Any niggling questions I had earlier have been fully satisfied and answered.
I commend you to his/her postings. Give it time you're going to get it eventually......
How in the whole wide world did you come up with "Stop ordering me around" from this? :
It is only a suggestion. And, I honestly think it would be very useful if one or more of you guys who like throwing the phrase "Pre-Trib Rapture Verses" around alot would make a complete list of those verses as a reference.
I really would like to see you guys compile such a list.
Remember the gun, the holster, and the cup of coffee?
Well...
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The 'problem' is that you are trying to interpret words and phrases directly out of the text.
You cannot do that and arrive at a proper result.
You must first understand what John saw (and heard) -- then -- you interpret that.
When people start trying to interpret the symbolism text directly into [whatever], that is where they [severely] go wrong.
Jesus can certainly show up riding a white horse if he wants to --- but, the 'grammar of the language' does not guarantee that it is actually literal.
I seriously doubt that he will show up with a sword protruding from His mouth.
Jesus wielding a sickle is just an illustration in the context of what is being conveyed by the passage.
You cannot "translate" these things directly and compare the detail.
Each 'scene' that John saw must be understood in the context of the passage that "illustrates" it.
Then - only the 'understanding' - the 'message' being conveyed - may be compared.
You cannot do that and arrive at a proper result.
You must first understand what John saw (and heard) -- then -- you interpret that.
When people start trying to interpret the symbolism text directly into [whatever], that is where they [severely] go wrong.
Jesus can certainly show up riding a white horse if he wants to --- but, the 'grammar of the language' does not guarantee that it is actually literal.
I seriously doubt that he will show up with a sword protruding from His mouth.
Jesus wielding a sickle is just an illustration in the context of what is being conveyed by the passage.
You cannot "translate" these things directly and compare the detail.
Each 'scene' that John saw must be understood in the context of the passage that "illustrates" it.
Then - only the 'understanding' - the 'message' being conveyed - may be compared.
Go look at the chart on this web page:
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Second_Coming.html
Every verse on that chart is referring to the Second Coming of Christ - the one-time return of Jesus.
Everything - in its proper order - will occur at that time.
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Second_Coming.html
Every verse on that chart is referring to the Second Coming of Christ - the one-time return of Jesus.
Everything - in its proper order - will occur at that time.
You misconstrue his point, hes not saying Paul is Post Trib, or that the Thessalonians were per se, hes saying the people Paul warned the Thessalonians about via their LIES were Post tribers. h-Here you go........
2 Thess 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away(DEPARTURE by the Church NOT from the faith) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
So, he is saying that those who MISLED the Thessalonians were Post Tribbers. At least that is the way I took it. We know Paul is a pre trib guy.
2 Thess 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away(DEPARTURE by the Church NOT from the faith) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
So, he is saying that those who MISLED the Thessalonians were Post Tribbers. At least that is the way I took it. We know Paul is a pre trib guy.
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K... but in my view you have overlooked a step...
As I see it, by comparing Scripture with Scripture, the student of the Word can also see the following:
Matt8:[11-]12 - [plz read also verse 11! and its parallel verse]
"12 But the children [G5207] of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
[<--parallel to all of the "weeping [/wailing--same Grk word] and gnashing of teeth" passages: example - Matt24:51(vv.43-51), and its parallel passage in Lk12:42-48(vv.36-41), esp. v.46 "and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers"]
OTOH, it is simply not the case that any member of "the Church which is His body" will ever have its destination as there described ^
[see again my posts on 1Th5:10[6] "[...] IN ORDER THAT whether we might WATCH [G1127] or whether we might SLEEP [G2518 (<--not the one used in chpt 4!); same two Grk words as used in v.6 of THIS VERY CONTEXT], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with / IDENTIFIED-with] Him." [completely DISTINCT from what passages are conveying in the Olivet Discourse and its parallels, esp with regard to the word "WATCH [G1127]" ^ ]
Blurring these all together, as though 1Th5:10[6] is expressing nothing whatsoever distinct from what passages in the Olivet Discourse (and its parallels) are conveying, brings the reader to one big mish-mash of mush, when it comes to "understanding" (let alone, being far afield from "correctly apportioning the word of truth" as we are called to do)
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@GaryA , what do you believe the verses I pointed out in the above half of this post ^ are saying (if you can gather what my "explanations" are, in this post... hopefully = ) )
If you come to a different conclusion than I have, on the above-mentioned verses, could you please explain *your* understanding of them? Thanks! = )
As I see it, by comparing Scripture with Scripture, the student of the Word can also see the following:
Matt8:[11-]12 - [plz read also verse 11!
and its parallel verse]"12 But the children [G5207] of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
[<--parallel to all of the "weeping [/wailing--same Grk word] and gnashing of teeth" passages: example - Matt24:51(vv.43-51), and its parallel passage in Lk12:42-48(vv.36-41), esp. v.46 "and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers"]
OTOH, it is simply not the case that any member of "the Church which is His body" will ever have its destination as there described ^
[see again my posts on 1Th5:10[6] "[...] IN ORDER THAT whether we might WATCH [G1127] or whether we might SLEEP [G2518 (<--not the one used in chpt 4!); same two Grk words as used in v.6 of THIS VERY CONTEXT], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with / IDENTIFIED-with] Him." [completely DISTINCT from what passages are conveying in the Olivet Discourse and its parallels, esp with regard to the word "WATCH [G1127]" ^ ]
Blurring these all together, as though 1Th5:10[6] is expressing nothing whatsoever distinct from what passages in the Olivet Discourse (and its parallels) are conveying, brings the reader to one big mish-mash of mush, when it comes to "understanding" (let alone, being far afield from "correctly apportioning the word of truth" as we are called to do)
____________
@GaryA , what do you believe the verses I pointed out in the above half of this post ^ are saying (if you can gather what my "explanations" are, in this post... hopefully = ) )
If you come to a different conclusion than I have, on the above-mentioned verses, could you please explain *your* understanding of them? Thanks! = )
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