Who is the beast that was and is not?

Hi Luigi!

While it is true that mountains are used symbolically to represent governments/kingdoms, in this case the seven heads of the dragon represent seven literal hills. We know this because the angel tells John "The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth." It also says that this woman who is a city, also sits on those seven literal hills, which is referring to her headquarters. Since the woman is said to be a city that sits on seven hills, then those seven heads cannot represent nations. The use of Symbolism represents the literal. In this case, the seven heads are symbolically representing seven literal hills.

The woman (Babylon the Great-whore), who rides atop the seven headed beast is a metaphorical representation of her riding the economic policies that the kingdoms of the earth follow, that cause all the murders committed throughout the earth (Revelation 18:24).

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Actually, the woman riding the beast, is figurative for utilizing the beast/antichrist's authority and power to reestablish her religious authority. Prior to 1798, the Roman Catholic Church (RCC), controlled kings and their armies via the threat of excommunication. Emperor Constantine was the first pope and according to their dogma, the popes have filled those two positions of emperor and pope which is still true today. However, the RCC does not have the authority to enforce her claim. Within their dogma, everyone on the planet is to come under the authority of the pope and belong to the RCC. When that antichrist comes, she will ride him, i.e. use his power to reestablish hers.

In order to come to a right conclusion, we have to apply the clues found that God gave us, which are:

* The woman you saw is that great city who rules over the kings of the earth.

At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that great city that ruled over the kings of the earth.

* The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits.

Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. This is in reference to the woman's headquarters, which would be referring to the Vatican, Rome's religious center.

* The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet and glittering with gold.

Purple and scarlet are the exact colors worn by the bishops and cardinals.

Chapter 17 & 18 are describing two aspects of the woman, which is her pagan religious system and her commerce, which according to scripture, will become even more prosperous during that time.

The woman as Roman Catholicism being referred to as 'Mystery, Babylon the Great,' is in reference to the fact that most of her beliefs, practices and rituals stem from ancient Babylon and all of the pagan religious systems that came from her. Within her can be found 'Queen of heaven' and 'Mother and Son' worship, to name a few.

The MITRE hat that the bishops wear, are very similar to the fish hats that the priests of dagon the fish god wore. The top of the hat is split open which is the mouth of the fish. And some of them even have a symbol used for an eye.

The RCC took the breaking of bread and the drinking of the cup and turned it into a Eucharist and transubstantiation, which is the belief that while the eucharist retains its outer form, after the priest blesses it, it literally becomes the flesh and blood of the Lord, so that the partaker can eat the literal flesh and blood of the Lord. However, when the Lord instituted His supper, He gave His disciples 'bread' to eat which symbolically represents His flesh. Both the bread and the fruit of the vine, were and are symbolic representing the Lord's body that was broken for us and figuratively His blood which which was shed for us.

Then let's talk about the white elephant in the room, that 82' pagan obelisk which came from Heliopolis Egypt and which sits out in middle of St. Peter's square at the entrance to the church. If this isn't a proclamation of her paganism, I don't know what is!

I could go on and on, but I thing that you get the idea.

Rev 17:8 The beast, because it was, and is not, and is to come.
The beast is not during the Whore of Babylon period.

No, John is saying it used to exist in his own past, does not exist at the time of John writing Revelation, and that the beast will return in the future. That excludes the beast being Rome since Rome was in power at that time and John said the beast was not there when he wrote that.

No, John is saying it used to exist in his own past, does not exist at the time of John writing Revelation, and that the beast will return in the future. That excludes the beast being Rome since Rome was in power at that time and John said the beast was not there when he wrote that.

Jerusalem does not meet the criteria of the city that currently rules over all kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). The city that rules over all kingdoms of the earth is the one whose economic policies are those that all the kingdoms of the earth strive to emulate. This city whose economic policies the worlds kingdoms strive to emulate is therefore deemed responsible for all the murders that are committed throughout the whole earth (Revelation 18:24).

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Actually, the woman riding the beast, is figurative for utilizing the beast/antichrist's authority and power to reestablish her religious authority. Prior to 1798, the Roman Catholic Church (RCC), controlled kings and their armies via the threat of excommunication. Emperor Constantine was the first pope and according to their dogma, the popes have filled those two positions of emperor and pope which is still true today. However, the RCC does not have the authority to enforce her claim. Within their dogma, everyone on the planet is to come under the authority of the pope and belong to the RCC. When that antichrist comes, she will ride him, i.e. use his power to reestablish hers.

In order to come to a right conclusion, we have to apply the clues found that God gave us, which are:

* The woman you saw is that great city who rules over the kings of the earth.

At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that great city that ruled over the kings of the earth.

* The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits.

Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. This is in reference to the woman's headquarters, which would be referring to the Vatican, Rome's religious center.

* The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet and glittering with gold.

Purple and scarlet are the exact colors worn by the bishops and cardinals.

Chapter 17 & 18 are describing two aspects of the woman, which is her pagan religious system and her commerce, which according to scripture, will become even more prosperous during that time.

The woman as Roman Catholicism being referred to as 'Mystery, Babylon the Great,' is in reference to the fact that most of her beliefs, practices and rituals stem from ancient Babylon and all of the pagan religious systems that came from her. Within her can be found 'Queen of heaven' and 'Mother and Son' worship, to name a few.

The MITRE hat that the bishops wear, are very similar to the fish hats that the priests of dagon the fish god wore. The top of the hat is split open which is the mouth of the fish. And some of them even have a symbol used for an eye.

The RCC took the breaking of bread and the drinking of the cup and turned it into a Eucharist and transubstantiation, which is the belief that while the eucharist retains its outer form, after the priest blesses it, it literally becomes the flesh and blood of the Lord, so that the partaker can eat the literal flesh and blood of the Lord. However, when the Lord instituted His supper, He gave His disciples 'bread' to eat which symbolically represents His flesh. Both the bread and the fruit of the vine, were and are symbolic representing the Lord's body that was broken for us and figuratively His blood which which was shed for us.

Then let's talk about the white elephant in the room, that 82' pagan obelisk which came from Heliopolis Egypt and which sits out in middle of St. Peter's square at the entrance to the church. If this isn't a proclamation of her paganism, I don't know what is!

I could go on and on, but I thing that you get the idea.

Jerusalem does not meet the criteria of the city that currently rules over all kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). The city that rules over all kingdoms of the earth is the one whose economic policies are those that all the kingdoms of the earth strive to emulate. This city whose economic policies the worlds kingdoms strive to emulate is therefore deemed responsible for all the murders that are committed throughout the whole earth (Revelation 18:24).

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

The woman (Babylon the Great-whore), who rides atop the seven headed beast is a metaphorical representation of her riding the economic policies that the kingdoms of the earth follow, that cause all the murders committed throughout the earth (Revelation 18:24).

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Jerusalem Is The (Great City) where Jesus Christ was crucified, and the future Antichrist will reign over the Kings of Earth And (World) from Jerusalem (Fact)

Revelation 17:18KJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 11:7-12KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

(Jerusalem) is the whore, mystery Babylon the great.

(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

As you are clearly shown above in Posts #49-#50-#51

Jerusalem is the whore, mystery babylon the great, she us guilty of the (Prophets) blood as described in Matthew 23:29-37KJV

Jerusalem is the woman decked in purple, scarlet, gold and precious stones

Jerusalem is the (Great City) where Jesus Christ was crucified, and Jerusalem will reign over the earth's kings, when the Antichrist is given power for 42 months in (Jerusalem)

Its That Simple

I read where the whore Babylon sits atop of are seven mountains, not hills. These seven mountains are also represented as the seven heads of the beast, which are seven kings/kingdoms (Revelation 17:9-10).

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

How is Jerusalem responsible for all murders committed throughout the earth, as the whore Babylon is deemed culpable?

This isn't 1798, and the Vatican holds no real power over the kings of the earth today.
In contrast to the no real power Vatican; what Wall Street does, the worlds other bourses follow.

Can some of the brethren here help me unlock a few things:

Revelation 17:9-12
And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

1. Who are the seven kings?

2. Who is the beast that was and is not? My guess would be something related to the Roman Empire as previously in the chapter it talks about purple and scarlet and being drunk with the blood of the saints and cup of abominations, all fit the Catholic Church.

3. Rome is called the city on seven hills so I am confident the mountains refer to that. I have heard some say Jerusalem is also called that, but I find Rome to be more likely as John is writing in code to avoid further Roman persecution I believe. It also says the city runs the kingdoms of the earth, that much more aligns with Vatican city where all the world leaders meet the Pope all the time and they are actively involved. Jerusalem doesn't really run things right now.

That is fine if you see it that way. I do not.
For it applies not to John's day, it applies to the day in which the Whore exists.

The beast was before the Whore of Babylon, then the Beast is not when John sees the Whore of Babylon. and then the beast will come while the Whore of Babylon still exists.

This is the proper interpretation of it.

The seven heads are mountains not kings as you suggest

Verse 9 ends with (Period), Jerusalem is built upon seven hills/mountains just as Rome

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.