Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??
- Thread starter Major
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
ARE you sure, as I asked what are the Pastoral work? lets see, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."
NOW,
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
now a word of Wisdom is "UNDERSTANDING", scripture, Proverbs 2:6 "For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding."
now do you see it now?
a Pastor is to feed the flock of God with, "knowledge and understanding.", per Jeremiah 3:15, and this Gift is found in 1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
so I ask, do you understand NOW?
PICJAG, 101G.
NOW,
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
now a word of Wisdom is "UNDERSTANDING", scripture, Proverbs 2:6 "For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding."
now do you see it now?
a Pastor is to feed the flock of God with, "knowledge and understanding.", per Jeremiah 3:15, and this Gift is found in 1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
so I ask, do you understand NOW?
PICJAG, 101G.
-
1
- Show all
Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 12, and he also wrote 1 Corinthians 14 below 
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
-
1
- Show all
So I Ask, Do You Understand Now?
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 12, and he also wrote 1 Corinthians 14 below, why do you disregard this truth?
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Acts 15 gives us an example of how Christianity actually developed. The Apostles were literally figuring out Christianity, and what it means to be "free in Christ," yet in Acts 15 (below), Paul clearly teaches that Gentiles are to follow the Law of Moses. We also see, in Galatians 2, that Peter reverts back to the Law of Moses, thus causing many to fall astray. Brutal.
Clearly, the Apostles, at least for a time, were struggling with the development of Christianity, and what it means to be Free in Christ. Therefore, I am also compelled to believe that this is an error on the part of Paul . . . to tell women to be silent and cover their heads in church. That seems like hardcore legalism to me. In fact, I'd be crushed if I entered a church and found women to be in this controlled condition.
Acts 15:19-21 NLT - "And so my judgment is that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood. For these laws of Moses have been preached in Jewish synagogues in every city on every Sabbath for many generations."
Clearly, the Apostles, at least for a time, were struggling with the development of Christianity, and what it means to be Free in Christ. Therefore, I am also compelled to believe that this is an error on the part of Paul . . . to tell women to be silent and cover their heads in church. That seems like hardcore legalism to me. In fact, I'd be crushed if I entered a church and found women to be in this controlled condition.
Acts 15:19-21 NLT - "And so my judgment is that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from eating food offered to idols, from sexual immorality, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from consuming blood. For these laws of Moses have been preached in Jewish synagogues in every city on every Sabbath for many generations."
-
1
- Show all
S
I really did not understand just how unbiblical the banning of women from pastoring was until I found out what these pharisees actually teach. It reminds me of how they used to use scriptures to justify slavery. Maybe in another 200 years most will concede that they were using the scriptures unlawfully.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Everyone has an opinion!
King James Bible
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
English Standard Version
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
New King James Version
This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.
New American Standard Bible
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
NASB 1995
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
NASB 1977
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
Amplified Bible
This is a faithful and trustworthy saying: if any man [eagerly] seeks the office of overseer (bishop, superintendent), he desires an excellent task.
American Standard Version
Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
This is a trustworthy saying, that if a man desires Eldership, he desires a good work.
Douay-Rheims Bible
A faithful saying: if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
English Revised Version
Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
Good News Translation
This is a true saying: If a man is eager to be a church leader, he desires an excellent work.
World English Bible
This is a faithful saying: if a man seeks the office of an overseer, he desires a good work.
IF.....IF I AM demonstrating a drastic lack of understanding concerning how language is used.
IT SEEMS AS THOUGH I AM IN A REALLY GOOD CROWD OF OTHER BELIEVERS!!!!!!!!!!
YOOU said............
This is an older manner of speaking. You cannot base doctrine on misunderstanding of archaic language.
IF.....IF that was not so sad, it would be laughable.
For 1500 years the church taught and demanded that salivation came the grace of God PLUS WORKS.
In 1565 Martin Luthor said NO. In OLD GERMAN he based his 99 thesis on one "old archaic method of Scripture".....
Ephesians 2:8-9......
"YE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, AND NOT OF YOURSELVES".
WAS HE WRONG THEN AS YOU SAY WE WHO BELIEVE 1 TIMOTHY 3:-12 TODAY??????
You can not have it both ways.
King James Bible
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
English Standard Version
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
New King James Version
This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.
New American Standard Bible
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
NASB 1995
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
NASB 1977
It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
Amplified Bible
This is a faithful and trustworthy saying: if any man [eagerly] seeks the office of overseer (bishop, superintendent), he desires an excellent task.
American Standard Version
Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
This is a trustworthy saying, that if a man desires Eldership, he desires a good work.
Douay-Rheims Bible
A faithful saying: if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
English Revised Version
Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
Good News Translation
This is a true saying: If a man is eager to be a church leader, he desires an excellent work.
World English Bible
This is a faithful saying: if a man seeks the office of an overseer, he desires a good work.
IF.....IF I AM demonstrating a drastic lack of understanding concerning how language is used.
IT SEEMS AS THOUGH I AM IN A REALLY GOOD CROWD OF OTHER BELIEVERS!!!!!!!!!!
YOOU said............
This is an older manner of speaking. You cannot base doctrine on misunderstanding of archaic language.
IF.....IF that was not so sad, it would be laughable.
For 1500 years the church taught and demanded that salivation came the grace of God PLUS WORKS.
In 1565 Martin Luthor said NO. In OLD GERMAN he based his 99 thesis on one "old archaic method of Scripture".....
Ephesians 2:8-9......
"YE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, AND NOT OF YOURSELVES".
WAS HE WRONG THEN AS YOU SAY WE WHO BELIEVE 1 TIMOTHY 3:-12 TODAY??????
You can not have it both ways.
-
1
- Show all
In Rebellion To Gods Clear Words Below
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Who is PAYNE???
You said.............
"Most scholars who do NOT believe a woman should pastor believe that Husband of one wife means not to married to more than one wife as that would not be blameless and NOT that he must be married. "
Agreed. That is what the Scripture says....."Husband of ONE wife".
It does not say DIVORCED.
You said........
"So your one verse is one of the weakest you could use to prove your point as it was never intended to say that a woman cannot pastor and you are trying to read into it something Paul did not have in mind. "
That is INCORRECT my friend.
I am not trying to prove anything whatsoever. ALL I have done from the verse 1st post is to post WHAT GOD SAID!
I am NOT trying to read into the Scriptures ANYTHING WHATSOEVER.
All I did was post WHAT GOD SAID.
"This is a true saying, If a MAN desire the office of a bishop, HE desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".
All of those referrences are MASCULINE pronouns in the original Greek.
You then said..........
"If he did he would have made a point that a woman should not be appointed as an elder but he never did that so you will never be able to call this an foundational text for your premise."
Now why would God have to be MORE to the point than using the words MAN, HE and HUSBAND just to allow YOU to be able to understand the meaning of the words MAN, HE, and HUSBAND which again are MASCULINE pronouns????????
Are YOU sure that YOU want to stand on that kind of thinking????
You said.............
"Most scholars who do NOT believe a woman should pastor believe that Husband of one wife means not to married to more than one wife as that would not be blameless and NOT that he must be married. "
Agreed. That is what the Scripture says....."Husband of ONE wife".
It does not say DIVORCED.
You said........
"So your one verse is one of the weakest you could use to prove your point as it was never intended to say that a woman cannot pastor and you are trying to read into it something Paul did not have in mind. "
That is INCORRECT my friend.
I am not trying to prove anything whatsoever. ALL I have done from the verse 1st post is to post WHAT GOD SAID!
I am NOT trying to read into the Scriptures ANYTHING WHATSOEVER.
All I did was post WHAT GOD SAID.
"This is a true saying, If a MAN desire the office of a bishop, HE desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".
All of those referrences are MASCULINE pronouns in the original Greek.
You then said..........
"If he did he would have made a point that a woman should not be appointed as an elder but he never did that so you will never be able to call this an foundational text for your premise."
Now why would God have to be MORE to the point than using the words MAN, HE and HUSBAND just to allow YOU to be able to understand the meaning of the words MAN, HE, and HUSBAND which again are MASCULINE pronouns????????
Are YOU sure that YOU want to stand on that kind of thinking????
-
1
- Show all
So you think that saying Charismatic Pentecostals interpret the Scriptures anyway they want to is being BELLIGENERANT?????
I say that it is just telling the honest down to earth truth and when that is done, those who are guilty always cry the loudest.
The Scriptures Actually say that women CAN NOT be pastors. YOUR denomination ignores the Scriptures my friend......PEROID!
NOTHIN said here FROM the Scriptures is gong to win a debate with you I fear.
Belligerence will not win this debate is true, and I was not being that at all. I was just telling the truth.
It is all just a matter of READING and BELIEVING what is literally said in the Scriptures.
I say that it is just telling the honest down to earth truth and when that is done, those who are guilty always cry the loudest.
The Scriptures Actually say that women CAN NOT be pastors. YOUR denomination ignores the Scriptures my friend......PEROID!
NOTHIN said here FROM the Scriptures is gong to win a debate with you I fear.
Belligerence will not win this debate is true, and I was not being that at all. I was just telling the truth.
It is all just a matter of READING and BELIEVING what is literally said in the Scriptures.
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Rebellion To Gods Clear Words Below
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
You forgot to quote the (NAFB)
(N)ew (A)merican (F)emenist (B)bible
Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.
Silence, Subjection, Obedience
(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)
1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
You forgot to quote the (NAFB)
(N)ew (A)merican (F)emenist (B)bible
-
1
- Show all