God's FREE Gift of {temporary?} ETERNAL Life!
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FreeGrace2 said:
No, rather, iow, you have no defense for your own beliefs,
Of course it does. You disagtee with my explanation of James 2, but you can't explain why.
You're really hung up about that, huh.
Sure, you've stated them. But you haven't backed them up with any evidence. They are basically just opinions.
I showed from ch 2:1-13 that James was addressing the issue of hypocrisy, even though he never used that specific word. And 2:15,16 is a clear example of hypocrisy, or what we call "lip service".
So, James wanted his saved audience to know that being a Christian but without works is hypocrisy, and he wanted to save them from that charge. You see, real simple.
And v.18 was thoroughly explained, but you still won't address it. If you had a solid refutation for what I said, you'd have already given it. But you haven't. Because you don't.
No, rather, iow, you have no defense for your own beliefs,
Of course it does. You disagtee with my explanation of James 2, but you can't explain why.
You're really hung up about that, huh.
Sure, you've stated them. But you haven't backed them up with any evidence. They are basically just opinions.
I showed from ch 2:1-13 that James was addressing the issue of hypocrisy, even though he never used that specific word. And 2:15,16 is a clear example of hypocrisy, or what we call "lip service".
So, James wanted his saved audience to know that being a Christian but without works is hypocrisy, and he wanted to save them from that charge. You see, real simple.
And v.18 was thoroughly explained, but you still won't address it. If you had a solid refutation for what I said, you'd have already given it. But you haven't. Because you don't.
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James 2: 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
@FreeGrace2 can say whatever he wants, until he resolves the above error. His words are meaningless
i will keep posting the above until he confesses that he was in error in the quoted statement
@FreeGrace2 can say whatever he wants, until he resolves the above error. His words are meaningless
i will keep posting the above until he confesses that he was in error in the quoted statement
Well, you sure didn't make that clear. And, btw, it's the legalists who want to add works to salvation, which is part of eg's problem in understanding Scripture.
A person is saved solely on the basis of faith or trust (same thing) in the work of Jesus Christ when He went to the cross and paid the sin debt for every human being in history.
Now, please explain where you think this suggests legalism.
A person is saved solely on the basis of faith or trust (same thing) in the work of Jesus Christ when He went to the cross and paid the sin debt for every human being in history.
Now, please explain where you think this suggests legalism.
Yeah, I think everyone know what James wrote. I've explained it, but you seem unable or unwilling to prove that my explanation cannot be right.
But go ahead and ignore the illustrations of hypocrisy that James noted in v.1-11 and especially v.15,16.
Then go ahead and quote the verses where "James says" all this. I really think you are imagining things.
You mean you're not going to defend your claims/opinions with FACTS from Scripture?
But I understand. Completely.
But go ahead and ignore the illustrations of hypocrisy that James noted in v.1-11 and especially v.15,16.
Then go ahead and quote the verses where "James says" all this. I really think you are imagining things.
You mean you're not going to defend your claims/opinions with FACTS from Scripture?
But I understand. Completely.
E
James 2: 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save Him?
James is about those who SAY they have faith. But have no works
he asks the question
CAN FAITH SAVE HIM ?
that’s what James us talking about
end of story for the proud who thinks one can have mere believe and is saved
James is about those who SAY they have faith. But have no works
he asks the question
CAN FAITH SAVE HIM ?
that’s what James us talking about
end of story for the proud who thinks one can have mere believe and is saved
Go ahead and ignore the clear examples of hypocrisy that James was warning his audience of being charged with if they didn't demonstrate their faith by works/deeds.
It takes a bit of discernment to see this, though.
Rom 4:45
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Eph 2:8,9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
These verses very plainly teach that works have NO PART in salvation.
But since this poster thinks every use of the word "saved" refers to soul salvation, consider:
Acts 27:20 - 20 When neither sun nor stars appeared for many days and the storm continued raging, we finally gave up all hope of being saved.
v.30 - 31 Then Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, “Unless these men stay with the ship, you cannot be saved.”
So this poster would think that Paul lost hope of going to heaven in v.20 and told the centurion and soldiers the only way to heaven wa to "stay with the ship".
Real good theology there, huh.
The obvious issue in James 2 is about not being a hypocrite or being charged with hypocrisy.
James was clear that he considered his audience saved in ch 1-
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,whenever you face trials of many kinds,
3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.
4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.
These are not words appropriate to unbelievers.
12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
These are not words given to unbelievers. They are words of encouragement to believers.
So James wasn't concerned about his audience's salvation at all.
Just takes a bit of discernment.
It takes a bit of discernment to see this, though.
Rom 4:45
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
Eph 2:8,9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
These verses very plainly teach that works have NO PART in salvation.
But since this poster thinks every use of the word "saved" refers to soul salvation, consider:
Acts 27:20 - 20 When neither sun nor stars appeared for many days and the storm continued raging, we finally gave up all hope of being saved.
v.30 - 31 Then Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, “Unless these men stay with the ship, you cannot be saved.”
So this poster would think that Paul lost hope of going to heaven in v.20 and told the centurion and soldiers the only way to heaven wa to "stay with the ship".
Real good theology there, huh.
The obvious issue in James 2 is about not being a hypocrite or being charged with hypocrisy.
James was clear that he considered his audience saved in ch 1-
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,whenever you face trials of many kinds,
3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance.
4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.
These are not words appropriate to unbelievers.
12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
These are not words given to unbelievers. They are words of encouragement to believers.
So James wasn't concerned about his audience's salvation at all.
Just takes a bit of discernment.
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1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God
its amazing that some think it is works which keep our faith alive, John here makes it clear, it is our hope and knowledge of what we have from God that keeps that faith alive,
all religions on earth believe in works as a means of making ourselves right with God, and as long as we are doing these works we are secure, when we mess up, our security fails, and we better make it right with god or we will get the boot straight to hell
they want God to be a spirit of fear, and anger and always pointing his finger at us, instead of the loving father who picks us up when we fall down, promising to never leave us nor forsake us, and to keep guiding our paths and empowering us to move.
God gave us the spirit as a pledge or down payment, paul uses this term to prove a point, you give a down payment to a bank or lender with the PROMISE you will pay the rest also. You guarantee to them that final payment in full will be made, if you fail to keep your promise, you LOSE what you pledged, not the bank, but the giver. And the giver loses reputation as being honorable and faithful
if God failed to keep his promise, it is not on us so that we lose it, it is on him and his reputation
its Gods character and reputation on the line not hours, it has been that way since Adam and Eve first sinned and they made the pledge to free the created from the death they deserved.
that’s why it is now and has always been grace through faith, Abraham believed (had living faith) God and through that faith God saved or justified him (made righteous) but abrahams faith was not dead. He proved it, even inspite all of his sins for. He still had works of faith, because true faith works,
there Are those who want us to believe we have have mere belief in God say some sinners prayer and continue to walk like the world (no works) and because we recited some prayer we are saved and will have eternal life.
well I hate to say it, but Paul said this is not true, James said this is not true lthe author of hebrews gave us the faith hall of fame, proving even in the OT those who had true faith always had works,
while a believer being sanctified should focus on loveing God and their neighbor by seeking after the things of the spirit to produce fruit (the result of works) it is God who works in and through us to feed us and empowers us for those works which we were created to do. It is not those works or lack of that empower us to continue to believe, it is the knowledge that to be absent fro. The body is to be present with the Lord, that things seen are good, but our faith is in the future, things unseen, the spiritual things that are ours
paul said we have been given EVERY thing in Christas an inheritance, yes, some things we are still waiting for, but they are still hours. Nothing can take that away from us, let us look to God, the author and finisher of our faith. And take out eyes of self.
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God
its amazing that some think it is works which keep our faith alive, John here makes it clear, it is our hope and knowledge of what we have from God that keeps that faith alive,
all religions on earth believe in works as a means of making ourselves right with God, and as long as we are doing these works we are secure, when we mess up, our security fails, and we better make it right with god or we will get the boot straight to hell
they want God to be a spirit of fear, and anger and always pointing his finger at us, instead of the loving father who picks us up when we fall down, promising to never leave us nor forsake us, and to keep guiding our paths and empowering us to move.
God gave us the spirit as a pledge or down payment, paul uses this term to prove a point, you give a down payment to a bank or lender with the PROMISE you will pay the rest also. You guarantee to them that final payment in full will be made, if you fail to keep your promise, you LOSE what you pledged, not the bank, but the giver. And the giver loses reputation as being honorable and faithful
if God failed to keep his promise, it is not on us so that we lose it, it is on him and his reputation
its Gods character and reputation on the line not hours, it has been that way since Adam and Eve first sinned and they made the pledge to free the created from the death they deserved.
that’s why it is now and has always been grace through faith, Abraham believed (had living faith) God and through that faith God saved or justified him (made righteous) but abrahams faith was not dead. He proved it, even inspite all of his sins for. He still had works of faith, because true faith works,
there Are those who want us to believe we have have mere belief in God say some sinners prayer and continue to walk like the world (no works) and because we recited some prayer we are saved and will have eternal life.
well I hate to say it, but Paul said this is not true, James said this is not true lthe author of hebrews gave us the faith hall of fame, proving even in the OT those who had true faith always had works,
while a believer being sanctified should focus on loveing God and their neighbor by seeking after the things of the spirit to produce fruit (the result of works) it is God who works in and through us to feed us and empowers us for those works which we were created to do. It is not those works or lack of that empower us to continue to believe, it is the knowledge that to be absent fro. The body is to be present with the Lord, that things seen are good, but our faith is in the future, things unseen, the spiritual things that are ours
paul said we have been given EVERY thing in Christas an inheritance, yes, some things we are still waiting for, but they are still hours. Nothing can take that away from us, let us look to God, the author and finisher of our faith. And take out eyes of self.
I agree wholeheartedly with all of this.
...and then, you posted this. You were doing so well. Who cut in on you?
When you say "mere belief" you are attacking the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is ONLY by belief that we are saved. As you seemed to understand in the first 8 paragraphs above. Then you straightaway attack the gospel of grace.
The point is we are saved by grace through faith (belief) and we work for reward.
while a believer being sanctified should focus on loveing God and their neighbor by seeking after the things of the spirit to produce fruit (the result of works) it is God who works in and through us to feed us and empowers us for those works which we were created to do. It is not those works or lack of that empower us to continue to believe, it is the knowledge that to be absent fro. The body is to be present with the Lord, that things seen are good, but our faith is in the future, things unseen, the spiritual things that are ours[/QUOTE]
There are 2 kinds of works the believer can do. Works from the flesh or works from the Holy Spirit. The difference is who the power source for the works is. Even unblievers can be moral, upright, etc. But it offends Him. Isa 64:6 - All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
The "filthy rags" actually means used menstrual rags in the Hebrew. Really offensive.
It was Peter who said we have "everything we need for life and godliness", in 2 Peter 1. But we have to choose to use them.
It is not automatic. All your posts about the necessity of works tarnishes the perfect work of Christ.
In fact, the ONLY WAY we can do the works that pleases God is when we are filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18).
However, Paul also commanded believers to NOT grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit.
These verses prove that works are not automatic in any sense.
And, James' point is that our faith can only be seen by others by our works. A believer who makes his profession openly but doesn't have works will look like a hypocrite to others. Like lip service.
...and then, you posted this. You were doing so well. Who cut in on you?
When you say "mere belief" you are attacking the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is ONLY by belief that we are saved. As you seemed to understand in the first 8 paragraphs above. Then you straightaway attack the gospel of grace.
The point is we are saved by grace through faith (belief) and we work for reward.
while a believer being sanctified should focus on loveing God and their neighbor by seeking after the things of the spirit to produce fruit (the result of works) it is God who works in and through us to feed us and empowers us for those works which we were created to do. It is not those works or lack of that empower us to continue to believe, it is the knowledge that to be absent fro. The body is to be present with the Lord, that things seen are good, but our faith is in the future, things unseen, the spiritual things that are ours[/QUOTE]
There are 2 kinds of works the believer can do. Works from the flesh or works from the Holy Spirit. The difference is who the power source for the works is. Even unblievers can be moral, upright, etc. But it offends Him. Isa 64:6 - All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
The "filthy rags" actually means used menstrual rags in the Hebrew. Really offensive.
It was Peter who said we have "everything we need for life and godliness", in 2 Peter 1. But we have to choose to use them.
It is not automatic. All your posts about the necessity of works tarnishes the perfect work of Christ.
In fact, the ONLY WAY we can do the works that pleases God is when we are filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18).
However, Paul also commanded believers to NOT grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit.
These verses prove that works are not automatic in any sense.
And, James' point is that our faith can only be seen by others by our works. A believer who makes his profession openly but doesn't have works will look like a hypocrite to others. Like lip service.
↑
Live4Him said: There is but one gospel, and it is the gospel of the kingdom, with Christ as its King.
?
Then, Why is it God Gave Paul The Different Gospel Of GRACE, With
CHRIST As The Heavenly HEAD Of HIS Church?:
God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!
Be Blessed!
?
Then, Why is it God Gave Paul The Different Gospel Of GRACE, With
CHRIST As The Heavenly HEAD Of HIS Church?:
God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!
Be Blessed!
I just discovered this thread.
This is what Jesus preached:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
This verse shows that WHEN a person believes IS the present tense for the believer, so the MOMENT one believes, they right then possess eternal life. Hearing, believing and having are all present tense. So this proves that one is saved and possesses eternal life the very moment they believe.
Now, there's more.
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
This verse tells us who gives the gift of eternal life, Jesus Himself. And then Jesus says that recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.
It could not be any more clear. Those who believe possess eternal life. And recipients of eternal life shall never never never never never perish. Ever.
Note that there is no mention of the recipient "losing" or "giving back" or "forfeiting" or any other like notion of his gift of eternal life.
The teaching of eternal security is very clearly stated in Scripture.
This is what Jesus preached:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
This verse shows that WHEN a person believes IS the present tense for the believer, so the MOMENT one believes, they right then possess eternal life. Hearing, believing and having are all present tense. So this proves that one is saved and possesses eternal life the very moment they believe.
Now, there's more.
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
This verse tells us who gives the gift of eternal life, Jesus Himself. And then Jesus says that recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.
It could not be any more clear. Those who believe possess eternal life. And recipients of eternal life shall never never never never never perish. Ever.
Note that there is no mention of the recipient "losing" or "giving back" or "forfeiting" or any other like notion of his gift of eternal life.
The teaching of eternal security is very clearly stated in Scripture.