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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#149,821
Jul 3, 2015
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#149,821
eternally-gratefull said:
Yep
they Never had true faith in him. They followed him for other reasons that’s why they left. Just like Judas.
Click to expand...
True, and Jesus even addressed this, accusing some people of following Him to be fed food and not/instead of Spiritual truths.

John 6:26 Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because
you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill."
 
BillG

BillG

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#149,822
Feb 15, 2017
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#149,822
eternally-gratefull said:
According to Hebrews 11 no. If they fall away it’s impossible to renew them to repentance
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Yes according to Hebrews 11 no.

Yet you say if they fall away it's impossible to renew them to repentance. Is that not Hebrews 6? Do you agree with that?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#149,823
#149,823
Magenta said:
True, and Jesus even addressed this, accusing some people of following Him to be fed food and not/instead of Spiritual truths.

John 6:26 Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because
you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill."
Click to expand...
Amen and amen sister!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#149,824
#149,824
BillG said:
Yes according to Hebrews 11 no.

Yet you say if they fall away it's impossible to renew them to repentance. Is that not Hebrews 6? Do you agree with that?
Click to expand...
I stand corrected. Heb 11 is the faith passage my bad
 
VCO

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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#149,825
oyster67 said:
John 6:66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Click to expand...

THAT PROVES that the Word mathêtês only means LEARNER, or FOLLOWER OF A PARTICULAR TEACHER. It in NO WAYS means that person is Saved, OR Born Again.

(Transliteration: mathétés; phonetic pronunciation: math-ay-tes') means "a learner, or follower"

Thus it Proves this VERSE:

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
 
CherieR

CherieR

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#149,826
May 6, 2017
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#149,826
eternally-gratefull said:
Yep
they Never had true faith in him. They followed him for other reasons that’s why they left. Just like Judas.
Click to expand...
What other reasons do you suppose they followed? I think some followed seeing the miracles and others perhaps thinking he would overturn Roman government.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#149,827
Jul 3, 2015
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#149,827
CherieR said:
What other reasons do you suppose they followed? I think some followed seeing the miracles and others perhaps thinking he would overturn Roman government.
Click to expand...
Some no doubt followed also because Jesus spoke with such authority and
knowledge of things for which they were hungry but did not understand well.

Not even the disciples understood, and required private tutoring :geek:
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#149,828
May 24, 2014
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#149,828
BillG said:
Can a person who walks away as you believe return?
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Just like the Prodigal Son, but the Bible tells us that some will harden their hearts to the point of no return...

Hebrews
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#149,829
May 24, 2014
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#149,829
VCO said:
THAT PROVES that the Word mathêtês only means LEARNER, or FOLLOWER OF A PARTICULAR TEACHER. It in NO WAYS means that person is Saved, OR Born Again.

(Transliteration: mathétés; phonetic pronunciation: math-ay-tes') means "a learner, or follower"

Thus it Proves this VERSE:

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
Click to expand...
When the simple plain straightforward truth doesn't suit, try to razzle-dazzle 'em with your transcendent higher knowledge. Good luck with that.
 
VCO

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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#149,830
oyster67 said:
Just like the Prodigal Son, but the Bible tells us that some will harden their hearts to the point of no return...

Hebrews
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
Click to expand...

You are surely CONFUSED. Prodigals WILL RETURN, Because GOD (the Holy Spirit) IS STILL WORKING IN THEIR HEARTS, (human spirit);
while the apostates will NEVER RETURN, because God (the Holy Spirit) has NEVER been in their HEARTS.
That is as Different as NIGHT and DAY.

YOU Pick and Choose what VERSES you want to believe, and those you want to REJECT as fables don't you ? ? ?

We believe the WHOLE BIBLE.

Here is one portion of Scripture, that WE accept as absolute Truth. And you apparently think it is Less than Truth?


Romans 8:28-30 (NASB)
28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.


GOD's Purpose for the Prodigals, who Temporarily Strayed, in all probability, is HE IS CALLING THEM TO MINISTER TO OTHER PRODIGALS. And you want to lump them in the same barrel as the apostates. Just like the Prodigal Son, but the Bible tells us that some will harden their hearts to the point of no return... Have you never heard the expression, "Except for the grace of GOD, there goes I."
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#149,831
Oct 14, 2013
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#149,831
oyster67 said:
When the simple plain straightforward truth doesn't suit, try to razzle-dazzle 'em with your transcendent higher knowledge. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...
HEAD KNOWLEDGE of JESUS does not SAVED, and NEITHER DOES SITTING IN A PEW WEEK AFTER WEEK. I uses to be one of those. But just before my 29th Birthday, I FOUND OUT WHAT REAL SALVATION was ALL ABOUT, and became Born Again, with Jesus and the Holy Spirit in my HEART. HEART KNOWLEDGE is the ONLY SALVATION THAT SAVES.

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess {It is not a Confession, if you have only PROFESSED it} with your mouth Jesus as Lord {It must take Place In your Heart, where you surrender to HIM loving as MASTER.}, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


I used to be a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain in a Level 4 Maximum Security Prison. The inmates have a term for just Professing Jesus, instead of genuinely CONFESSING HIM AS LORD. It is called: JAILHOUSE RELIGION, just profess HIM as Lord, but remain Lord of your own life, and put your religion DOWN, as soon as you go out the door.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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CherieR said:
What other reasons do you suppose they followed? I think some followed seeing the miracles and others perhaps thinking he would overturn Roman government.
Click to expand...
Yeah I think they saw riches, and the ability to be in high regards in the new government, Like many Jews, they saw him as king messiah, who would save them from rome, not the suffering servant who would save them from their sins.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#149,833
#149,833
oyster67 said:
Just like the Prodigal Son, but the Bible tells us that some will harden their hearts to the point of no return...

Hebrews
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
Click to expand...
The difference is the prodigal never stopped being the son, he was always the son,

those who “fall away” were never sons, that’s why it is impossible for them to repent, they went back to what they’re true faith was in, like a dog, they returned to their Vomit because they were never made a new creature, they tried Christianity and did not like it because it was not what they thought, so there is nothing that would convince them to return, because as John said, they were never of us.

those who return to law always had faith in the law, why else would they retuen

those who return to the world always had faith in the world, or they never would have returned to the vomit the world offers.

I can use this in any instance of why a person leaves the body to return to what they were doing before
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#149,834
#149,834
oyster67 said:
When the simple plain straightforward truth doesn't suit, try to razzle-dazzle 'em with your transcendent higher knowledge. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...
Sadly sometimes you need dazzle dazzle to try to help someone who thinks he knows the truth, and needs a little convincing.

sorry it did not work this time :cry:
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#149,835
May 24, 2014
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#149,835
VCO said:
You are surely CONFUSED. Prodigals WILL RETURN, Because GOD (the Holy Spirit) IS STILL WORKING IN THEIR HEARTS, (human spirit);
while the apostates will NEVER RETURN, because God (the Holy Spirit) has NEVER been in their HEARTS.
That is as Different as NIGHT and DAY.

YOU Pick and Choose what VERSES you want to believe, and those you want to REJECT as fables don't you ? ? ?
Click to expand...
Rubbish:(. The colors really bled through on that one.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
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Oct 14, 2013
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eternally-gratefull said:
The difference is the prodigal never stopped being the son, he was always the son,

those who “fall away” were never sons, that’s why it is impossible for them to repent, they went back to what they’re true faith was in, like a dog, they returned to their Vomit because they were never made a new creature, they tried Christianity and did not like it because it was not what they thought, so there is nothing that would convince them to return, because as John said, they were never of us.

those who return to law always had faith in the law, why else would they return

those who return to the world always had faith in the world, or they never would have returned to the vomit the world offers.

I can use this in any instance of why a person leaves the body to return to what they were doing before
Click to expand...

You just reminded me of a fact about certain inmates. I have heard similar statements coming from their mouths, and one inmate actually said, "I tried Christianity and it did not work." I told him, "No, you just thought Christianity was making GOD a magic Genie, and that failed measurably. Christianity is when you bow to HIM as LORD OF YOUR LIFE, and willingly out of True Love for HIM, try to participate in WHAT HE WANTS DONE."
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
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Sep 19, 2020
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#149,840
eternally-gratefull said:
According to Hebrews 11 no. If they fall away it’s impossible to renew them to repentance
Click to expand...
Could Hebrews 6, wher it says “ should they fall away” be refutation of thinking you have to be saved over and over again. (see Hebrews 6:1, where it mentions NOT laying AGAIN the foundation of faith) Some people who fall think they have to be “saved” all over again, but the writer is teaching a one and forever done salvation.

Just something I’ve wondered.
 
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