Could someone please explain the concept of 'free will' to me?

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Jan 15, 2021
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#61
I don‘t believe that God is an unconditional lover. He doesn‘t unconditionally love anyone. He died while we still were sinners...but He doesn’t leave us the way He finds us...so He can’t be an unconditional lover.

I don’t think enduring to the end has a lot to do with agape love. I think its going to take loyalty to God...faith in God and abiding in God to make it to the end. And honestly...I don’t see a whole lot making it to the end when the antichrist is allowed to overcome the saints and most will be beheaded anyway.
When did God die?
 
Jan 15, 2021
477
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#62
Yes, love's voluntary, but it isn't a feeling or abstract thought or even an action: it's a principle.

Principles are inflexible - they remain rigid, no matter the circumstances, like fire being hot or ice being cold. When a person chooses to voluntarily love another (romantically speaking), as a principle it must be given unconditionally.

Sadly, most treat love as merely an emotion or an action to be indulged, and nothing more. So important to ask God to lead, guide, and direct.
'Love: an intense feeling of deep affection.'

Is the English dictionary wrong?
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
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#63
When did God die?
Jesus died on the cross for our sins...He was sent by God the Father...and He is also God.

Romans‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​


‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
‭‭
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
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#64
And what is the scriptural basis for it?
God could have created all Angels that obeyed and followed His ways, the Holy way, but then God would have been nothing but a Slave Driving God, which would not be Holy, so that goes against God's nature. Thus all created beings have to want to be like a Holy, wonderful, gracious God. Thus FREE WILL is a must.
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
43
#65
God could have created all Angels that obeyed and followed His ways, the Holy way, but then God would have been nothing but a Slave Driving God, which would not be Holy, so that goes against God's nature. Thus all created beings have to want to be like a Holy, wonderful, gracious God. Thus FREE WILL is a must.
Free will to either follow or deny.

Matthew‬ ‭10:32-33‬ ‭
Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
‭‭
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#66
Self will in operation. We are born enemies of God. Good luck choosing Him without His help...
Amen. He opened the door for us. We were all born in need of Salvation. When we reach the age of accountability, He gives us the opportunity.

Romans
5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#67
Is love voluntary?
Good point....

Yes, and that is why God does not desire things done out of obligation. This is a stone upon which many stumble. Jesus wants us to come out of our free will that He gave us (made possible by His shed blood) so that we might choose Him VOLUTARILY.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#69
I do have something to say.

The "natural born man" being hostile to God is not the analogy that Paul is drawing in Corinthians.
And I will have more to say shortly.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#70
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Never stated otherwise. :)
This does not mean men are totally depraved, nor does it mean they cannot exercise free will.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#71
I don‘t believe that God is an unconditional lover. He doesn‘t unconditionally love anyone. He died while we still were sinners...but He doesn’t leave us the way He finds us...so He can’t be an unconditional lover.

I don’t think enduring to the end has a lot to do with agape love. I think its going to take loyalty to God...faith in God and abiding in God to make it to the end. And honestly...I don’t see a whole lot making it to the end when the antichrist is allowed to overcome the saints and most will be beheaded anyway.
God loves you more you know, and He loved you before you love Him. And he loves everybody. and He is not willing that any should perish. And His self sacrifice on the Cross for us gives evidence of Agape love... (I can post verses for all these things, but it might take several pages.) He wants an intimate and personal relationship with you. He wants it now. You don't have to wait 'till you get to Heaven.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
43
#72
God loves you more you know, and He loved you before you love Him. And he loves everybody. and He is not willing that any should perish. And His self sacrifice on the Cross for us gives evidence of Agape love... (I can post verses for all these things, but it might take several pages.) He wants an intimate and personal relationship with you. He wants it now. You don't have to wait 'till you get to Heaven.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
I know that God loves me and died for me. Doesn’t mean that I also believe that He’s an unconditional lover. You can come to Him how you are...but He loves you too much to let you stay that way is why I believe that He doesn’t love unconditionally. If He did, He wouldn’t change us into a new creation, but leave us how He found us.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#74
'Love: an intense feeling of deep affection.'

Is the English dictionary wrong?
Nope. And that is agape love and that is what He had when He created us and that is why He went to the Cross. That is what He desires to share with every man, women, and child on this planet today and ever since the beginning.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#75
there is for sure a great gap between 'AGAPE LOVE' = DEVINE LOVE,
and
carnal love, which, at best equals simple 'affection', such as most
animals have for their offspring...
 
Dec 2, 2020
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#77
'Love: an intense feeling of deep affection.'

Is the English dictionary wrong?
Love is also an action. A choice. The things we choose to do.
For example, can you really tell your wife you love her if you cheat on her?
But if you bring her those flowers, and do things to connect with her, and make healthy choices for the two, that is how you show your love.
 
Jan 15, 2021
477
81
28
#78
Jesus died on the cross for our sins...He was sent by God the Father...and He is also God.

Romans‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​


‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
‭‭
Jesus is fully human and fully divine. At least it is my understanding that is the general consensus of whom Jesus is. It is also my understanding that God always is, was, and will be, thus God cannot die. The human body that God inhabited in the form 'Jesus of Nazareth' died. There is some debate on this. Some argued that the spirit of God LEFT Jesus during the crucifixion, hence him asking 'why have you forsaken me'. This makes sense, as why would God ask himself why God had left him? A is A. If 'A' is no longer A then 'A' is not A.
 
Dec 2, 2020
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#80
God may have had feelings for us, but as Christ He ACTIVELY loved us by coming to die for our sins, not just by sitting in Heaven and "feeling."