PASTOR CRISIS

The entire problem devolves around the concept of "the pastor".

The Lord never intended one man to be "the pastor", nor be an "employee" of the church. Please note carefully: For this cause left I [Paul] thee [Titus] in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: (Titus 1:5).

A careful study of the New Testament shows:

1. That every local church was supposed to have a presbytery -- a plurality of elders -- not one man as "the pastor". These men would need to meet the qualifications of elders as spelled out, and women would be excluded. Elders would need to be mature married Christian men, who had the gift of teaching.

2. The elders were to be the pastor/elder/bishops within that church. There would be no one-man ministry, and that pattern had been established since the time of Moses. Each one would exercise the spiritual gifts he had received.

3. The office was that of elder-bishop and the spiritual gifts within the presbytery would be (1) evangelists, (2) pastors, (3) teachers (4) exhorters, (5) ministers, (6) rulers or governors, and (7) helpers. Perhaps seven would be the ideal number, just as seven deacons were appointed in the church at Jerusalem.

4. The elders would be the shepherds and would focus on prayer and the ministry of the Word, while the deacons would be the money-managers and general managers, making sure that the material needs of the flock were addressed.

5. Those elders who excelled and labored in the Word and doctrine would be well-compensated, but not all elders would need compensation if some were self-supporting. However those who preached the Gospel would live of the Gospel.

6. The shepherds would watch carefully over the flock, and minister to the individuals as well as the group. The pulpit ministry would be only one aspect of shepherding, which would include personal oversight of each sheep, as spelled out in Ezekiel 34.

7. Faithful men would teach other faithful men within the assembly, so that none would have to go outside the church to be "trained" for the ministry. The ministry would not be a career but a calling, and the money-motive would need to be secondary.

All of this was subverted early on within Christendom. The Orthodox and Catholic churches veered away from this, and created a division between clergy and laity, while appointing one bishop over several churches. This was further enhanced by a hierarchy within the Catholic church (leading up to the pope), and the introduction of Scholasticism and seminaries made academic qualifications more important than spiritual. Today churches want their pastors to be Masters of Divinity else they won't even bother to talk to them. Many have the title "doctor" when Christ expressly forbade the clerical titles of "doctor" or "rabbi" or "reverend", "right reverend" etc.

Chances are that there will never be a return to the NT pattern, thus the problems will remain.

If you substitute moses for pastor.....many of those items fit moses.

There are pastors that may have forgotten the real purpose why they choose to become shepherds.

It's not like Jesus handed down the rules and regulations of Christianity for man to follow

Gosh, some even shared meals over the grave of a passed believer, believing they were sharing a meal with them because they were alive in the spirit. Such practice today would be rendered cultish and demonic!

I beg to differ. Didn't he say, "Go, and make disciples?" That kinda sounds like a command to me. The question is, how many churches in North America are doing that on a consistent basis?"

I think I may have missed that part of scripture. It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I have not read that in the bible. I would appreciate it if you would point me in the right direction. Thanks

Chances are that there will never be a return to the NT pattern, thus the problems will remain.

What I meant was, how we gather as believers. It has vastly changed since the Book of Acts. Some people look to that as this is how we should gather, others say, the way we gather now is the only way to gather. There is no one way of doing so.

True, but the current model is not working all that well, in my opinion. It's what I continually argue against.

Yeah, I look at my posts and realize how harsh I can be toward the modern-day pastor. It's just that I want things to go back to the way it was before the corporatization of the church. I think that if the pastors could work like Jesus did and make real disciples out of about 8-10 people, they would free up alot of their time for bigger projects. After all, isn't that what Paul did?

In other words, I would like to see pastors make disciples so those disciples can make even more disciples. Wouldn't that be great!

And I agree, I'm not in favour of it either but I wouldn't say that God is not amongst any of those gatherings. (not saying you believe that [unless you do?] )

80% of spouses feel the pastor is overworked

I said at the beginning that I knew why the pastors are in crisis. All your comments have been interesting and worth a read, except a couple, and some of you have alluded to what I believe is the situation. You can disagree with me here but I believe that the problems are of our own making because of disobedience of the leadership of the church.

1. If you read the New Testament regarding the leadership of the church, not once and I mean not once does it say that a pastor leads the church. Even more it does not indicate that is a ministry for a pastor alone. The seminal verses about leadership in the church is Timothy and Titus plus there are 23 other verses that talk about leadership of the church.

2. In Timothy, the leadership of the church is male and plural. In Titus it is the same. The 23 verses that refer to leadership refer to apostles, prophets and Elders. it does not mention pastors once. If that is not as plain as day I don't know what is.

3. The idea that Debra was a leader in the Old Testament, that Priscilla was joint leader of a home group and that Junias was referred to as an apostle (which she/he wasn't) being the evidence for female leadership of the church is ludicrous bearing in mind all the other references to church leadership.

4. People who want to use these examples for church leadership are drawing a very long bow to make their dogma resonate. As far as Junia is concerned we don't even know if she/he was male or female so that knocks that example for six.

5. In Ephesians 4 v 11 it is clear that Jesus annointed the church with five distinct ministries. Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Shepherd and Treacher. People say that the shepherd and teacher are one and the same. Not so. The temperament needed for these two ministries are polar opposites so no one could perform both with success. They will either be a good teacher but a poor shepherd, or a good shepherd and a poor teacher.

6. I am a teacher but a hopeless shepherd so I don't get involved in that ministry as it would probably mean I would make a mess of it.

7. If God gave five ministries to the church, why do we think we can do it all with one?

8. The New Testament teaches the priesthood of all believers. Why do we teach the priesthood of one? The pastor.

9. The New Testament Church met in homes where every joint supplied (priesthood of all believers). We meet in impersonal buildings to facilitate the pastor joint.

10. No one was paid a salary in the New Testament Church. When you have the priesthood of all believers you don't need to. Today, nearly every church pays someone to make the decisions. In other words he/she is a manager not a ministry.

11. In the NTC all leadership was male. Today in most churches the leadership has been invaded by women on the basis of equality which is never mentioned in scripture.

12. The NTC met for fellowship, meals, teaching and prayer. We meet together to have fellowship with the back of people's heads.

I could add many more but that will do for a start. Until we address these issues with the church we will remain non descript and innefective. A social club to keep our followers happy.

in all my years of 'churches', I have truly known of only one' 'pastor' of a church that I think would
qualify as a 'true-pastor', and he whole-heartedly put himself 'out there and on the line' for all of
his immediate congregation, and for multiple others who weren't part of his home-fold -
I would see him or run into him in places that I would not have expected so many times and most
of them were in hospitals or homes - any hour, and day, and there would be (((Pastor Charlie)))!!!

Yes he did LA.,
and they were very supportive of him, along with the congregation -
on several occasions at his church functions, he would be honored
for his works in the community, and every time he was a picture
of humility and grace...

I don't know if this is in the right forum but here goes. I was sorting out the vast amount of paperwork on my desk and came across some disturbing facts which I share with you and ask "what on earth is going on to cause this." I know but I thought I would canvas your ideas. it is all about pastors.

1. 80% of pastors believe that the job has negatively affected their families.
2. 95% of pastors do not regularly pray with their spouses.
3. 90% feel they are not properly trained for the job.
4. 70% of pastors constantly fight depresssion.
5. 70% say they do not have a close friend.
6. 50% of pastors are so discouraged they would leave the ministry if they could find another way of making a living.
7. 50% of the pastors starting out will not last 5 years.
8. 80% of spouses feel the pastor is overworked.
9. 80% of spouses feel left out and underapreciated.
10. 66% of members expect the pastor to be more moral than they are.
11. Over 1,700 pastors left the ministry every month last year.
12. over 1,300 pastors were terminated by their church each month often without cause.
13. over 3,500 people a day left the church last year.,

Number one reason why pastors leave the ministry....The congregation will openly oppose the direction the pastor wants to go.

Over to you.