TONGUES false teaching.

Still your heart is hard against the truth of scripture.


If you argue against a simple reading of scripture you are taking counsel against God.

For the cause of Chrisst
Roger

Perhaps reading 1 Corinthians 14 would help

I don't think that Paul is saying that there is a specific angelic language. I think he is making a rhetorical point. That if you could speak in such a language, that without love you are just making noise. So this text doesn't prove or disprove an angelic heaven language.

One thing I know,43 years ago in my prayer, I asked for the gift of speaking in other tongues and it was given, the same today as it was then

Many claim the gift of tongues dosent exist today?

Telling me that, is like telling the blind man that was healed by Jesus, that he really couldn't see, Smiles

I don't know the condition of your heart but I do know that hermeneutics (rules of interpretation) would consider the context in a "simple reading of scripture" therefore you would have to agree that this appears to be talking about them asking questions and not a ban on them speaking in tongues or interpretations of tongues.

Also we have other scriptures to add to this idea of women speaking in church in the "theological context" of heremeneutics.
For example Philips daughters that prophesied when the church was gathered in his house. Now since the gift of prophesy is also a SPOKEN gift and since women were given this gift on the day of Pentecost and beyond we therefore know that women can speak in the church in decently and in order but it is in disorder that they are told not to speak.

In reading 1 Cor 14 three times it says for people to be silent in the church. 1) When speaking in tongues out of order addressing the people without an interpreter, (otherwise they can speak in tongues to themselves and to God, which is allowed) 2) When prophesying and someone else has also been given a word to speak, then the first is to be silent and let the other speak, 3) and if the women who are asking questions out of order should be silent and ask their husbands at home.

A simple reading of the scriptures makes it clear. All three "be silent in the church" is directed to both genders and is about doing things in order not a ban on speaking at all.

I don't know the condition of your heart but I do know that hermeneutics (rules of interpretation) would consider the context in a "simple reading of scripture" therefore you would have to agree that this appears to be talking about them asking questions and not a ban on them speaking in tongues or interpretations of tongues.

Also we have other scriptures to add to this idea of women speaking in church in the "theological context" of heremeneutics.
For example Philips daughters that prophesied when the church was gathered in his house. Now since the gift of prophesy is also a SPOKEN gift and since women were given this gift on the day of Pentecost and beyond we therefore know that women can speak in the church in decently and in order but it is in disorder that they are told not to speak.

In reading 1 Cor 14 three times it says for people to be silent in the church. 1) When speaking in tongues out of order addressing the people without an interpreter, (otherwise they can speak in tongues to themselves and to God, which is allowed) 2) When prophesying and someone else has also been given a word to speak, then the first is to be silent and let the other speak, 3) and if the women who are asking questions out of order should be silent and ask their husbands at home.

A simple reading of the scriptures makes it clear. All three "be silent in the church" is directed to both genders and is about doing things in order not a ban on speaking at all.

So? That was not the point, nor even what I addressed. See the part I quoted?
Yeah, it asserted that interpretation was never needed. Paul says it was.

God said they would end. Are saying God was mistaken? Tongues ended per 1 Cor 13:8. The other gifts continue but for the rebels against God that is not enough.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I present the following information to help someone who is seeking truth on this topic.

The heremeneutics of the Pentecostals is superior to the ceasationist and that is why it continues to spread. Pentecostals do study the bible and decide that these gifts are available, they ask and receive.

I have been studying the subject from the bible for 40 years. I was studying all of the scriptures on the subject in 1981 when I asked for and received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues. I have been studying it since.

I have discovered brilliant theologians like Roger Stronstad, William Menzies, Robert Menzies, Gordon Fee, Stanely Horton, and many others who make anti tongue teachers like John MacArthur sound like amateurs.

If people will read some of these authors on the subject which do go through every single verse on the subject unlike John MacArthur who skips around using only the ones that appear to sound negative and ignores the majority positive verses, they will soon realize that they have not read as much on subject as they think they have. Too many times people have not studied the subject like the Bereans they mention and have a horrible hermeneutic based on selective readings.

When you see how thoroughly the subject is handled by Stronstad or Menzies you will fall on your face in repentance for the way you have disparaged the holy gifts of God and repent in dust and ashes.

Of course one can just read the bible, but unfortunately people say they do that, but if you get into a bible study on tongues you soon learn they don't know half the scriptures on the subject. So even though it is true theoretically that you can just read the bible and learn about the subject of tongues, most don't do it. That is why I suggest reading Roger Stronstad or William Menzies, or even Gordon Fee, which are respected theologians even among non pentecostal theologians who have persuaded non pentecostal theologians that their hermeneutcs were superior and have changed the minds of Greek speaking non penetecostal bible college professors that their interpretation was correct and conceded on the subject, turned from ceasationist to continuationists in their interpretation of scripure.

So before you claim that the pentecostal is not studying his bible you should look at one of these authors works that has convinced those who know more of the scripture and original languages than you and be open to the idea that maybe you could still learn something you did not know about this topic.

If these writers presentation of hermeneutics on the topic have persuaded Greek Speaking Seminary professors who were ceasationists to change their beliefs to continuationist don't you think they might be worth reading?

People ask me to read or listen to John MacArthur's views on the topic and I have. Then I try to get them to listen or read one of these authors and I don't think they ever do. Why? If they did they would suddenly see how pitiful John MacArthurs presentations on the topic are. These men are giants, MacArthur sounds like a dishonest manipulater on this topic in comparison to these authors thorough work on the topic. If they were to read them they would discover how poorly MacArthur handles the subject.

Our God does not change. His children may not be perfect but they do not change so much either.

The giftss will be here as long as we are in this age.

I do believe in gift of tongues but I think some people fake it.

Complete and utter nonsense!

That is NOT what the Scriptures say!

The day that they cease is the day that Jesus returns. We won't need them then bro.

10but when the perfect comes, the partial passes away.

Jesus was already here and the passage does not say when Jesus returns but when the scriptures are complete is the point of the three gifts cited being changed according to the sovereign will of God. If you study Joel 2 you will see the completion of Peters message at Pentecost. It is the Jews who show forth the gifts not Gentiles.

Paul is speaking of the completion of the NT in 1 Cor 13 not the return of Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If you have attended as many Pentecostal church meetings as I have you will agree that what is seen in all of them is the habit of "SPEAKING" in Tongues.

It is a method of speaking in such a way that no one understands what is said.
No one interprets what is muttered.
Women it seems are the ones who do most of the "Tongues" noises.

Now, allow me to say that I have been there and done that. However as I grew older and actually READ what the Bible says it becmae very clear that what is seen today is NOT BIBLICAL tongues as recorded in the Bible.

So then, instead of just accepting what we have been told or doing what we WANT to do, shall we actually see what the Bible does it fact say??????

Acts 2:7-11............

Notice the phrase in Acts 2:11, "our tongues." The crowds heard the Apostles preach in their own native tongues, not some unknown heavenly jibber jabber. There was NEVER any heavenly languages spoken that no one understood and required an interpreter.

There is a drastic difference between Biblical tongues and the heretical speaking in tongues we see in churches today.

The "speaking in tongues" which the Pentecostals foolishly practice are UNKNOWN tongues, not anything found on earth. Supposedly, those unknown tongues can only be interpreted by ONE spirit-filled member of the congregation.

The Apostle Paul speaks common sense to us Corinthians 14:19...
"Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."

Now before replying to this post from an "Emotional" response, and actually that is what speaking in tongues is, an EMOTIONAL event, take the time to do the work first.

Read 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14. Anyone can see that they are "Corrective" Chapters from Paul to the church and the CONTEXT is .....ready.....
Speaking in tongues".

Now that being the correct hermeneutical point then notice carefully chapter 14:34........
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. "

Literally....the CONTEXT demands that "women are not permitted to speak in TONGUES in church".

Without women speaking in tongues there is then in fact no tongues movement at all.

I sometimes wonder if I "let myself go" maybe I could speak tongues, but I can be a shy person so I don't know if that's stopping me from speaking tongues.