Fear of marriage

Its comical to hear people say men doing the dishes will make a relationship work. Women are not craving bus boys and janitors. Every study ever done the more house work a man does the more chance of divorce. Women grow to disrespect men who do house work. Its as ignorant as me saying women who change my oil really it turns me on. Every one knows it doesnt. At all. Ever.

And if not housework and sex what exactly are you in a relationship with a woman for? Married or not they are not going to b spending a dollar from their feminist careers on you. I dont need anybody to keep me up on pop culture.

Well you know what makes men really like women when they change my brakes and i can relax a bit finally. Huh does that sound right. Only i wouldnt b relaxing because i like my brakes to function. Haha! Just like women like their dishes and houses exactly like they like them and should clean them themselves.

WOW! That was brilliant! You should submit this for publication. I especially loved "Only I wouldn't be relaxing because I like my brakes to function." LOL.

You are so right. So what do women want? I am not going to post that. And what else do they want? Well it will require a significant amount of your time and attention. Are you up for it? If not, don't get married, it will not work out, you'll just end up in a lot of pain and crying over your beer somewhere listening to Willie Nelson or Johnny Cash and having your keys taken away by the bartender.

Well, nothing like saying it as it is boys lol. (as it is for you clearly at any rate.)

Oddly enough not every man or woman shares your views, but I hope you find a partner who does for both your sakes and I wish you both a long and happy marriage if ever that blessed time comes.

in the meantime, the good old fashioned biblical use of individual skills, talents time, energy, resources and gifts, to help one another out in whatever way is best for the encouragement and well-being of the other person, is probably the recommended way for most folks to have a long and happy marriage.

What women DON'T want is to feel like a slave. In many cases nowadays, both husbands and wives work. Being a mom/caretaker/housekeeper/cook/cleaner is also a full time job. There simply is not enough time in a day to do both. A woman not working is not really a viable option unless you live out in the boonies where cost of living is cheap. A second income is really the difference between "poor" and "rich" in most cases.

A woman doesn't like to spend money on a guy if she thinks he is being cheap (meaning, stingy). If a man isn't spending money on the girl, he can at least pay for his own things. Money is a tricky issue, since a person can feel taken advantage of. However, if the man is generous, the woman is also very generous.

Speakinh of money..money is always an area to keep ones eye on for sure and there is also wisdom to in terms of how both parties view spending.Sometime one spouse can be far to relaxed with their spending and run up debts on credit cards,buying goods on hp without thinking about the affordability of this...whereas the other spouse exercises self control/discretion and looks at things more realistically.
Also having children also mean buying a bigger house at some point...budgeting for larger shopping Bill's, children's clothes ect ...all makes money all the more important to be wid with.

The secret to a happy "Christian" wife.
1) Be 100% devoted and obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ.
2) Well, you already know about that one.
3) Make $300K a year. Save $200k a year. Budget and live off $100k a year for the first x years. Pay off a house. Make sure part of your saving investment portfolio includes the annual tax on the house for the rest of your life (so you can never lose your house) Make sure your invetstment portfolio includes guaranteed savings that you can't loose that are sufficient for living on a $100K income for the rest of your life. The rest of your savings/investments should easily be in the multimillion range at the end of 30years and allow you to live on $300K a year for the rest of your life.
So if you make $300k a year today, you put most of it into savings and investments (low risk mutual funds) and live off 100K for about 20 to 30 years so that you can retire early and live off $300K a year for the rest of your life. But pay your house off early, and get that yearly tax fund set up so you never have to worry about loosing the house from not paying taxes, then you will TRULY own your own house.
This kind of financial security will make your wife happy and she will always be super nice and sweet to you and rub your feet (if you like that kind of thing) and respect you and honor your and brag about you 24x7.

You're welcome. You can leave all the trophies below.

What if it's the WOMAN that has achieved this, and not the man?

(No, I'm not saying I've done this, but due to being raised by frugal Christian parents, I have no outstanding debts, and yes, I pay my taxes.) And I'm not saying this to try to make myself sound good, I'm only saying that every stereotype has its exceptions, and I'm happy to have made friends with many women who are the exception to the stereotype, and are right here on CC.

It's interesting that there is always this pervasive view that women are soul-sucking, money-hungry vampires... At the same time, there is all this talk about the evils of feminism and how it has destroyed the family, and I'm not saying that it hasn't. HOWEVER, the modern Christian community seems to want women who make enough of an income to "do their fair share" and not place ANY monetary stress on a man (because then they're nothing but a gold-digger,) but yet will be completely available to be a full-time housewife, homemaker, sex kitten, and mother at the drop of a hat, all while bringing in that significant income so that they won't be seen as taking advantage of the man or using him for his hard-earned cash.

In the meantime, for some women to whom God has not given a husband or a family, we (gasp) work, and work, and we save and save, and we pay things off... And we find ourselves in a situation where we're either debt-free or working on it, and yet still are given the evil eye and verbal chastising for being money-hungry feminist demons who are causing the downfall of the Christian family.

This is what happened for me. With the guidance of my parents, I figured that since I didn't have the responsibility of a husband or family (yet -- maybe someday?,) I would concentrate on trying to cut off as many nooses around my neck (debts) as possible, one by one, from the smallest to the biggest. Of course it's a process, but maybe one my (possibly future husband) might appreciate, if he stops complaining about how much women use men for money long enough for me to be able to try to tell him that this was what I was doing while I was waiting for him.

I can't help but think of (the singer) Madonna's old song, "Material Girl," which I know I'll probably bet slammed for. While the song does indeed talk about a very materialistic woman, if you've ever seen the video or have heard an interview with the singer about the song, it was meant to be a PARODY of money-hungry women. In the video, the singer is a rising star with men courting her left and right with diamonds and luxuries, but in the end, the guy she's interested in and agrees to goes out with is a janitor, who doesn't even have a vehicle to take her out in, and has to bribe someone else to let him use their truck to pick her up.

There's a line in that song that says, "Boys may come and boys may go, and that's all right with me. Experience has made me rich, and now they're after me."

I know I'm probably going to get some flack for using that song, but to me, what that line means is that while everyone else is complaining and pigeonholing, why not get up and work your way into being the exact opposite of what people think you are or are going to be?

The even more interesting part is, how are they going to react if and when you succeed?

OK, You're right.

It could be the woman who makes the $300K a year.

The same plan applies. The husband that will support and stick to the savings/investing plan and live below their means while achieving financial security will make her even happier than if the Husband was the one who made the $300K because she will appreciate that he is not a threat to achieving the goals she is working so hard for.

If she knows that she does not have to worry about him sabotaging the mission critical plan, then she will be very happy with him and the marriage will probably be very successful, provided 1, and 2 are not an issue.

It does not matter which one makes the $300K as long as they are in agreement in accomplishing the goals.

I don't think that a marriage that thinks in terms of "your money and my money" is working from the correct philosophical or moral value system. It should be ONE entity. The law sees it that way because it is based on the moral Christian perspective of marriage. The two shall become ONE.

If I wanted to marry I would look for a woman who has already achieved these goals and is already retired living on $300K for there rest of her life, her house paid off and who wants me to join her to enjoy her life without feeling I would be a threat to her investments or financial strategy. This could work if the woman is the one who made the money. I agree.

Because I have seen at least one situation in which this very thing happened, and to make a long story short, the person with the lesser income actually was taking advantage of the financially stable spouse, I am personally a fan of both parties signing legal documents that will try to prevent using each other for money.

I understand that most will see this as an unbiblical view, but this is just my own opinion and what I would do in my own life after seeing the devastation it has caused even among Christian couples.

For myself, I am more than willing to sign papers saying that I will not take advantage of my spouse for financial gain. With as many stories as I read about men complaining that women have taken them to the cleaners, I almost feel as if this is the only way I could prove to a man these days that I am not with him for money, because so many men talk about this.

Likewise, I would expect the same of him.

Now, exactly how two people can blend their lives when one has no debts, and the other person has nothing but debt, I'm not sure. That is definitely something that has to be worked out between God and each couple.

I would try my best to put in the work to attempt to cross that bridge if it were ever placed before me, God-willing, no matter which side I was on.

I realize my viewpoints might not be popular, but we are all a product of our experiences, and I know what mine have taught me.

I understand you.

I would be more comfortable with someone who believes that what's mind is hers even if I worked for it before I met her. And also someone who would feel that whatever is hers is mine even if she worked for it before she knew me.

The idea that either one of us can be a blessing to the other is a joyful concept.

For example, many men of my age would want to present their accumulated wealth to the woman as an incentive for her to be attracted to the idea of marrying him.

In this culture of equal rights the woman who has accumulated wealth should be excited about offering that as an incentive to marrying her.

The idea that they don't want to offer that part of them, for the benefit of the spouse, hold it back as theirs not to be shared, would remove the romance for me.

If I were looking, which I am not because I know this idea is a fantasy anyway. LOL No rich woman is going to share her wealth with me.

However if I were rich, I would want the woman to know she gets it all as part of the package. Also I would already have made sure she had the financial integrity to not sabotage the long-term financial goals that would benefit us both, if I doubted her ability to stick to our agreed upon financial plans I would not marry her.

I don't think there is anything wrong with it if ONE of the many reasons a woman wanted to marry a man was for his wealth, or financial stability the she plans to benefit from.

If a woman did not want me to have access to her wealth I probably would not be interested. Her wealth would be one of the reasons to marry her. What is wrong with that? ONE of the reasons, not the only one of course. Am I wrong?

I believe that both spouses should be fully aware of each other's finances (no secret accounts). Whatever the person earned/accumulated prior to marriage is his own legally speaking (it should be fine to treat those assets as separate). However, this doesn't mean that the spouse should be stingy about separate assets, quite the opposite. If an emergency arises, such as a medical issue, and there are no other options, the spouse should be willing to withdraw from the personal account.

Whatever is accumulated during the marriage is combined. I think a joint account where earnings are deposited is best. In terms of investments/retirement accounts, I think they can continue to be separate, but the beneficiaries should be set for the spouse (and a certain amount to the parents depending on their financial situation, since I believe children have an obligation to elderly parents). Once the parents have passed away, the beneficiaries should be set for the spouse only (and to adult children if there are any). I believe investment/retirement accounts, and ongoing investments, can continue to be in separate accounts, and the spouses would be fully aware of such activity since the funds would come from the joint account where the earnings are deposited.

I generally agree with this, but I believe trust comes with time. If someone is cautious about his finances in the beginning of marriage and wants to keep things separate I would understand. However, if we have been married for 10 plus years, and he is still treating his finances as separate I would be concerned.

When you say "what's mine is hers," do you mean you would let her spend "your" money as she wishes?

All spending is agreed upon. Budgets strictly followed.

Hi Scribe,

Thanks for being willing to have an open discussion about this. I think it's an important subject to talk about, especially as singles get older and start to settle into a later path in life.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember reading one of your posts in which you stated that you gave up a successful career in the world to follow where God was leading you? I have nothing but absolute respect for you for doing that. 🙂

And here's where I have to show my own cards as well.

I do understand about marrying a person for the entire package, and wealth might be part of that package. For me, it's a bit tricky, as I do have a quite jaded heart of my own.

When I was younger, I got into a series of long-term relationships, one of them winding up as a marriage. Looking back, I was probably doing a lot of my own thing and not following where God was leading me.

I never had a large income or high paying job. I was just a kid trying to make it through school with several part-time jobs. But I also didn't have the same vices as the guys in my relationships had, such as compulsive spending, drugs, and alcohol. So even if we were earning the same amount of money, they would spend a good portion of their checks on their own intetests, and I would wind up having to make up for what was missing. Even when I wasn't married, I always had marriage in mind, and since you are going to blend two lives into one, I always felt I had to spend whatever money I had left on what they couldn't pay, which was most everything.

During my relationships, I paid for everything from school bills to car repairs, living expenses, court cases and childcare for other women's children. Unbeknownst to me, when I was married, my husband was even using our shed to store a belonging for his then-girlfriend that I didn't know about. He also moved to the other end of the house for the last six months we were married, refusing to speak to me, then one day moved out without telling me while I was at work, and blindsided me with divorce papers that were sent in the mail. I didn't know he had a girlfriend until about six months after I received the divorce papers, when a friend of mine saw them together and called me.

I finally figured out that he had been using our house as a free place to stay while he saved up enough money to leave and go be with his girlfriend. It was really a catch-22. I never wanted to be the questioning, paranoid, jealous type, so I guess I became too trusting and naive instead. We were both in school and worked so many jobs that when he told me he was working, I didn't see any reason not to trust him.

Obviously, I have my own very sensitive spots in my own heart, and I truly empathize with men who have put up with these kinds of behaviors from women. I am very sorry when others, whether men or women, go through this, and I told God that I wanted to work as hard as I could to make sure I didn't do the same to anyone else.

Because of my own cloudy past, I would need some kind of absolute reassurance that the guy I was with the future with was not going to use me as an ATM to pay his bills. And I would do everything in my power to prove the same of myself to him.

It's a nice, fluffy aspiration on paper, I know. How it would work out in real life, I'm not sure, as I have not encountered that situation yet, and I know that there are times in marriage where the giving and taking is done in an unequal proportions.

I understand what you are saying about marrying a person as a complete package.

However, I have to confess that I am unsure of how both parties can prove to each other that they are marrying because of their genuine love and care for each other, and not just primarily FOR the package more than the person.

I appreciate your honesty.

In theory, this is how it should go.

In real life... it was all discussed and agreed upon in advance, but unfortunately, that's not how it went.

Sadly, we are never quite taught in advance what to do when life doesn't go according to the way we try to script it out.

To me, that sounds a like huge restriction/caveat and does not reflect the true meaning of what's mine is hers/his. "What's mine is hers/his" would include freedom in how to consume. Many types of spending are not part of a pre-planned budget. If my husband wants me to pay for World Series tickets (which are thousands of dollars each), but I don't want to, can I say no?

I understand why we all make these statements about the way things are supposed to go. But no one tells us what to do when they don't go that way and you haven't anticipated what actually happens, because you have no way of doing so.

One of the issues in my marriage was that we were in the opposite roles of the way most men and women are stereotyped. He was the spender, and I was the saver.

We had done everything that we were told to do. We completed the church requirements and premarital courses they offered. We agreed to a budget and I was going to keep track of it, simply because I had been following budgets for a long time and had more experience with them.

But what do you do when life doesn't follow the script? The very day after we got married, I thought I would surprise him by cleaning out his car. And I started finding receipts he had never told me about. He had a debt in the five figures that he had never even hinted at.

So when everything came clean, we now had five figures worth more of debt than what I had ever even thought of adding to our budget when I set it up.

And this was on the second day I was married.

What's even worse is that even once we got that paid down, he would just open more cards in secret and spend all the more. It was a matter of constantly tossing money into a bottomless pit that I had no way of keeping up with.

I understand as Christians we all learn the rules, and we help keep each other in check by restating the rules to each other of how we should plan and how things should go.

But too often in life, things just don't go the way we think they should, and you can't force a grown adult to stick to a budget if they are refusing to do so.

I used to talk about these kinds of things a lot in previous times on the Forum. These days I often wonder if I should just keep it to myself.

But if there is even just one person out there that will read this and it will somehow help them in some way, then I can't say I regret speaking up.

This was one of the things that cut the absolute deepest. I was trying very hard to keep things afloat the best I knew how, but it was never good enough, and in the end, he left for someone else anyway.

Not that I didn't contribute plenty of my own flaws. When life goes haywire, we never act the way we are supposed to. I was bitter, angry, and anxious about money all the time, and certainly not very pleasant to be around.

This is why I explained my recipe for a happy wife in the first place.

This scenario you described is very common. It is one of the most common reasons for divorce. It is usually the root cause of a very angry wife. It works both ways, but my topic was the secret to a happy wife and I place financial planning that achieves comfortable wealth in her future while she is still young enough to enjoy it the best plan a man could have for keeping her happy. He will be happy too.

What do you do if you are already married and he is not doing it? Get him into a Dave Ramsey course. Do it together. What if he won't do it? Get you one of those 20 inch iron frying pans and.... LOL.

Pray a lot, get the pastor or counselors to talk to him. I need to know the answer to this, because I am eventually going to have to deal with it when I pastor. It will be the most common issue I deal with in marriage. (i.e. One of them is a spender and the other is about to commit murder over it. ) I start Pastoral counseling classes Oct 2021, hopefully I will get good answers from those classes.

When you get the answers, please come back and tell us.

One of the struggles I've had in my life is trying to follow the Christian formulas I was always given, but things usually turned out much differently.

I would love to be able to talk to someone about what to do realistically when that happens.

As a follow up to all you ladies who wish your husbands would sit down with you each week and talk about a budget plan and long term savings goals to accumulate wealth. MAKE IT EASY FOR HIM.

Don't start conversations about it as if you are already in a fight.

This is often the reason couples can't agree on finances. They are talking down to each other, making accusations, saying things that the other feels requires a defensive response and 10 minutes into the effort to plan a budget she has stormed off into the bedroom and slammed the door and he is yelling "I knew this wouldn't work"

Speak kindly and politely during the whole process. Smile.

Don't repeat offenses that he has made in the past. Even if you feel you are faking, just keep faking being nice and soon you will feel nice also, and have a husband that is as excited about budgeting and reaching financial savings goals as you are.

Usually you have to break bad habits of horrible communication skills. You have to resist telling him all the mistakes he has made and just concentrate on solutions for the now and the future. Be nice, be friendly, laugh and have a good time. MOST IMPORTANT TIP EVER when it comes to working on finances together. Talk to him as you would your pastor or someone you like at work. In other words don't let familiarity cause you to not speak politely, civily, kindly, respectfully. It will change your marriage and your finances.
Most good men want to get control of their bad financial habits and would love to take advice from a polite person trying to help, but no one can tolerate a nag or an angry venting person. It sounds obvious but it is a challenge to follow when your emotions are screaming to vent.

No shaking of the head in disgust, no face palming, no rubbing the eyes and heavy sighing when he makes stupid suggestions. Be patient, don't teach him like he is a child or usurp authority over him (1 Tim 2:12) instead validate his opinions and when they are obvious mistakes, let him discover that himself by kindly bringing to light something he was not thinking about. Using words like "You're such an idiot when it comes to money" is not going to accomplish your goals.

Thank you for taking the time to write this out.

And in turn, what is your counter advice to all the men when it comes to budgeting and Godly spending?

I admit I'm slightly smiling, as I was in a chat recently in which some guys were expressing there a lot of excitement about purchasing the Play Station 5.

How would you counsel the guys on this matter?

And what would you say to them if their wife or girlfriend told them they realistically couldn't afford it at this time, and they went out and bought it anyway?