Why it will be a pre-trib rapture and why the rapture takes place.

Like most here we all have seen these threads before.
I have prayed for everyone that reads and listens to this thread that there eyes and ears will be open. That your understanding of what's about to take place and why be found in Christ Jesus and not the theology of man.
This thread is God's truth and not some idealism, theology, or misinterpreted scripture war. It is based on the word of God and his timing.

Let's begin

Without the old testament it is impossible to understand the new. In fact the new testament is as Jewish as the old. Remember all scripture points to Christ. In the days of Jesus that's all there was ...the old testament. He had not come to destroy it.... or change it ....but to fulfil it.
Our God is a never changing God. In fact scripture tells us nothing is new everything is old under the sun.

If you are in agreement with the above statement let us explore this mystery paul testifies of.

Not one stitch of scripture is referenced to support your claim,why?

Not one stitch of scripture is referenced to support your claim,why?

Brother you are absolutely right ....not one stitch.....how about 4 to 5 thousand yrs of history?

I'm kinda on your side, but we discuss the Bible here. History is written by the winners, not eh Holy Spirit. But here is my understanding.

In Revelation 18:4; we have a decisive warning; "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." It is directed at "MY people". It does not take more than middle school English to realize that (i) God's People ARE in Babylon the Great, and (ii) if a Christian is caught with a band of thieves in a convenience store at 4 a.m in the morning with a bag full of goods, he will be arrested and charged with the criminals he is with. Now, it also does not need higher education to know that Christians love money as much as the heathen, and that this call to "MY people" will not be obeyed by very many Christians. After all, what are they doing there in the first place?

And so the "plagues" that befall Babylon the Great, will fall in Christians and these plagues are sent out during the Great Tribulation. That means that there are Christians on earth, fully involved with Babylon the Great, and because they are present to enjoy her plagues it means that they have not been raptured BEFORE the Great Tribulation. This is confirmed in three more scriptures;

1. In Revelation 7 a great multitude of men and women from all nations, but who are intimately connected to Jesus Christ, have passed through the Great Tribulation (Rev.7:14)
2. In Revelation 12 a great company of those "who have the testimony of Jesus Christ" must flee to a wilderness and be "helped by the earth" - not God, for 1260 days of the Great Tribulation
3. In Revelation 13:7 the saints will be "overcome by the Beast who make war on them". This is during his time of universal power.

So, a Pre-Tribulation Rapture for ALL Christians is impossible. The argument that these are the people who will believe during the Great Tribulation has not a single supporting scripture. And in any case, with the Christians in the Wilderness and defeated by the Beast, who will be preaching the gospel? It can't be the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 because they kill their enemies - the opposite of the gospel which SAVES people.

But a Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a fact - just not for ALL Christians. Again I will show three scriptures. But you will immediately recognize that a Pre-Tribulation escape is CONDITIONAL. That is, just like Revelation 18 above, IF you do something, God will do something. IF you are involved with criminals, you get caught with criminals. When God judged Korah in Numbers 16, He warned all Israel to move far away from Korah and his band lest there be collateral damage and you get killed too. So, IF a Christian is involved with the world, he must suffer her portion. IF he is involved in watching and praying, he will be connected to the Savior. Let us examine;
Luke 21:36. The Chapter mostly talks of 70 AD with Jerusalem surrounded and defeated. But then, suddenly, in about verse 25, a change of period takes place. It starts to talk of the "Coming of the Son of man" and the events surrounding it. Verse 36 says three things, (i) you have to be "accounted WORTHY", (ii) IF you are accounted worthy you will ESCAPE these events, (iii) you will "STAND" before the Son of man. If He is not yet on earth, you will be in the sky with Him, and (iv) since the Tribulation covers the WHOLE earth, you must be somewhere else to escape. But it is CONDITIONAL. You have to meet certain requirements.

Revelation 3:10. Christ is speaking to the Church at Philadelphia. He say to them "BECAUSE" you have done a certain thing, He will KEEP you from the HOUR of trial that comes upon the WHOLE EARTH. Again, like Luke, the tribulation covers the whole earth, so there is nowhere ON EARTH you can go where the tribulation won't hurt you. Here, you are "KEPT FROM ... ", not "kept IN". It is not like the 144,000 of Revelation 7:1-8. They are "kept IN" the Tribulation (Rev.9:4). But the Church at Philadelphia will be "KEPT FROM". The word "FROM" means you are away FROM your normal residence. And finally, in Revelation 3:10 the Overcoming Christians are kept from "THE HOUR of trial". That is, they will be NOT PRESENT during the TIME of trial. They will be missing from the "WHOLE EARTH" for at least 42 months - the time of the Great Tribulation

1st Thessalonians 4:14-18 does talk of the Rapture, but it does not address WHEN. It talks about HOW it happens. But in the next immediate verses we have WHEN. In the original text we do not have Chapters and verses. The word "BUT" in Chapter 5 verse 1 shows that the next verse are a continuation of Chapter 4. And verse 1 of Chapter 5 tells of a TIME when this will happen - the "day of the Lord. Now, i will not go verses for verse. I trust you will catch what I say at once. (i) The Lord comes as a THIEF. Why? For something PRECIOUS. Thieves do not steal the trash. They only take the most valuable things. (ii) The Day of the Lord comes as a THIEF. Why? Because everybody will be sleeping and not watching, and they will not sense danger. (iii) The Christians SHOULD not be caught, but if the Holy Spirit warns us not to sleep, then it is because SOME WILL SLEEP ("as do others"). (iv) Like wise, why does the Holy Spirit say "putting ON the helmet - the HOPE of SALVATION". But are we not saved by faith in Jesus? YES! But that is our eternal salvation from the Lake of Fire. This is the SALVATION FROM GOD'S WRATH (verse 9) of the SEASON (verse 1) when we are RAPTURED (Chapter 4). I is all one text and context. If you cherry pick verses you will never get the gist. But if you take it as a whole, all is clear. There is a Rapture in Chapter 4 and this is for a SEASON (5:1) in which three things happen:
(i) the Lord comes as a thief for something precious
(ii) destruction comes on those on the earth as a thief - just when they thought they were safe
(iii) the Christian must PUT ON a helmet of HOPE in a future salvation of God's wrath for this season

But there is a catch. If you read the two letters to the Thessalonians, especially 1st Thessalonians Chapters 1 and 3, you will find that the Holy Spirit FINDS NO FAULT WITH THEM. Like Philadelphia, they are the only Church in all of Paul's letters that does not have a moral problem. Their only problem is that Paul was there such a short time (3 weeks - Acts 17), that they were short on teaching. The Church at Thessaloniki was a model Church.

But in a most unlikely place we have a repeat of 1st Thessalonians Chapter 4:14-18. In Philippians 3:8-14 Paul talks of the PRICE that one must pay to gain Christ - to know Him intimately. The PRICE is "everything you own" - "ALL THINGS". Your money, your comfort, your time, your pride and your rights - nay, even your LIFE. He then continues with (i) resurrection and (ii) RAPTURE - THE PRIZE OF THE "UPWARD CALL". The Greek in verse 14 is correctly rendered in the New King James Version; "I PRESS toward the GOAL for the PRIZE of the UPWARD CALL of God in Christ Jesus." Paul must LOSE ALL, then he must still PRESS towards A GOAL, and then it is, when gained, A PRIZE of the "upward call". The Greek literally means "the call to on high". Once again, it is CONDITIONAL.

So, there is a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. BUT ... it is for a select few WHO EARNED IT. The bulk of Christianity has become apostate and are on the other side if the fence. They must pass through the Great Tribulation to be "purged" and "ripened" by heat and dryness.

Let's begin😁

First let's establish a few things.
The old testament saints that died in faith never went to heaven but we're kept in a place called Abraham's bosom.
The resurrection is a physical resurrection not spiritual.
Jesus is referred to as the Passover lamb and high priest.

Let's begin😁

First let's establish a few things.
The old testament saints that died in faith never went to heaven but we're kept in a place called Abraham's bosom.
The resurrection is a physical resurrection not spiritual.
Jesus is referred to as the Passover lamb and high priest.

Saint I see your view point but stay tuned because the rapture has to happen and will....so the rest of the story continues☺

Let's begin😁

First let's establish a few things.
The old testament saints that died in faith never went to heaven but we're kept in a place called Abraham's bosom.
The resurrection is a physical resurrection not spiritual.
Jesus is referred to as the Passover lamb and high priest.

The whole premise is wrong, the Old nor New testament are "Jewish", th

That is true up until the resurrection of Christ. The Old Testament were raised with Christ and are no longer in Abraham's bosom.

Dan 12:2 (KJV) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The resurrection STARTED when MANY, but not all, of the bodies of those that slept in dirt rose.

Matthew tells us that MANY but not all of the bodies of the OT saints rose when Jesus rose.

Mat 27:52 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

That event was the beginning of the resurrection.

Acts 2:28-34 - David is still in Hades and not ascended - and that, 50 days after the resurrection of Christ and 10 days after His ascension.

Daniel 12:2 is after the Great Tribulation. See verse 1.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 15:

51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

(the corruptible is our physical bodies/the incorruptible is our heavenly/spiritual bodies)

55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56) The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57) But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58) Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Yes I agree, the time of Jacobs trouble. The time when God took the kingdom from Israel.

Here's something I've noticed about prophecy that maybe will resonate with others' study: I've noticed that for prophecies that involve a mass of people (whether a nation or the world) there often seems to be a prophet that experiences a personal fulfillment of that prophecy in his life first, as a "witness" to what the Almighty will do on the larger scale.

Recall the judgment against the houses of Israel and Judah. Ezekiel was commanded to personally experience a fulfillment of the hardship that would happen to the people, a day for a year.

Another example is the Messiah's ministry. He witnessed a personal fulfillment of Israel crossing the red sea, receiving the law and then wandering in the wilderness for 40 years, but his was jordan baptism, receiving the Holy Spirit and then 40 days in the wilderness.

He also personally experienced persecution, death and resurrection saying that a servant isn't greater than his Master; that if they persecuted Him they will persecute and kill his servants...and as he was resurrected on the 3rd day after persecution and death so do his saint wait for the blessed hope of resurrection.

The body must follow the head, right?