Knowing the Father

What you say is so true, but we need to immerse ourselves in the word as a means of growth.

Thankyou Blik,
You are quite right. The Word of God must be our starting point.

You know I have been studying the relationship with human mind and heart and how both coincide with God. Scientists have recently been doing studies on the heart that shows the mind and heart are both in unity in the process of what makes us who we are and who we can become but the interesting thing is that while the mind follows logic uses intellect and stores knowledge it is also greatly affected by the thought process of the heart.

Studies have found the heart is kind of like a second brain except the heart produces waves of a significantly higher standard it receives and outputs everything in a greater degree everything you truly value everything you truly feel and basically the true you is not within the mind but the heart however both are needed to work in perfect unity.

This relates to God in many ways but one factor is the knowledge of God and knowing God, we can study read about and hear about God using our minds to store this knowledge and understanding however the heart processes all of this differently and instead of knowing him with our minds we tend to know him with our hearts
This is the difference with religion and with the actual relationship with God, religion studies him and also like in many debates on cc has a sort of winner complex basically using the intellect of God alone creates people who go by religion they can debate until they are blue of their knowledge and understanding of God but their hearts do not know him.


One with an actual bond and relationship with God comes to know him with their hearts and is also how they hear and can feel him the holy spirit speaks to our inner being our hearts this is why when you are talking to someone on cc you can sense or tell they are very spirituyally filled that they are deep in the waters of his love and heart and that they truly have a close bond with him.

The holy spirit uses out hearts to sense things to speak things to recieve understanding and connect to others without even being there physically. Children usually are very good at this because their hearts are still open they are not mature yet and so they have not seculded the voice and ears and openness of the heart and just rationalize everything . For those who are in love with him they feel as if they are small children with him this is because the relationship and bond with him opens our inner hearts to receive him to know him to dive deeper into his heart and love. emotions can actually go into a deeper state where they emite from the heart and transpire to our brains connecting the two in unity balanceing the thought process of the heart and mind we don't rely simply on the hearts process where you don't use logic and understanding but you also do not rationalize everything so much you forget the bond and love with God.

Interestingly enough this is why some believe that when you are praying and just talking to him you are experiencing feelings you want to speak to him so badly but you don't have the words for it like the human tongue cannot pronounce what you wish to speak this is because it simply can't.

What you are speaking and feeling in your heart is on a level the human mind cannot really perceive this is when the holy spirit speaks for us. There is so much more I have on this subject but I don't want to make a wall of text for people to read but thank you for making this thread is is truly a blessing.

Jesus told us that we start to pray by saying “our Father” (Matthew 6:9). In other words we are to talk to God as a child would to its parent. We can tell him how we feel, what our immediate needs are and bring the needs of others and ask him to do something about them.

The process of coming to spiritual maturity is based upon coming to “know” the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ. This does not mean that we come to “know about God,” but that we come to “know God.”

We may have heard about some worthy person in our community from others. We may have read about what they have done and studied and admired their life story. But until we have met and conversed with them in some way and for some time and sensed something of their inner being and their motives, we can’t say that we really “know” them.

Thus growing in our “knowledge” of God is not an intellectual or emotional process. Rather, it is the result of an ongoing experience of “fellowship” brought about by the “Spirit of wisdom and revelation” doing his work within our innermost being.

Jesus told us that we start to pray by saying “our Father” (Matthew 6:9). In other words we are to talk to God as a child would to its parent. We can tell him how we feel, what our immediate needs are and bring the needs of others and ask him to do something about them.

But transcending all this, we start to come to an understanding of his eternal goals and how he wants us to become involved in bringing them to fulfillment. In this way we can learn to leave our own needs to him and become absorbed in whatever he wants to do in the sphere in which he calls us to be involved.

yes The Word -- Christ -- is The Origin

unless He chooses to reveal the Father to someone, they cannot know Him

Good post.

Psalm 103:7, "He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel."

Deuteronomy 34:10, "And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face"

Maybe we could learn from Moses. In the Psalm above, we find a clear and interesting contrast. Israel were witness to God's acts - in Egypt and in the Wilderness. But they did not KNOW WHY. Moses, on the other hand, was witness AND he knew why. This is only gained by an ongoing intimacy.

Moses, at the outset was clearly chosen and preserved by God. Besides midwives who were under orders, from none less that Pharaoh, to kill Hebrew males as they flopped out of the womb, the Nile is known for its huge and deadly crocodiles. But God's protection only saves a man and does not train him. So, with his mother watching from afar, Moses is raised in the Royal Palace. He is privy to politics, intrigue, financial considerations, military tactics and kingdom building. He was, "... learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds" (Acts 7:22). That means that he was also schooled in the ancient religion of Babylon from Nimrod, knew how and why the Pyramids were built, and had, as is normal, his body promised to Satan, as is customary still today in Free Masonry. This lasted all of 40 years. As men's choice goes, Moses was surely the last man to lead God's people.

In the prime of his education, physical prowess and political position, something in him sees the plight of his countrymen - Israel. Being the man "mighty in words and deeds", he endeavors to use his natural position, power and prowess to alleviate the sufferings of Israel. As men go, no better or well-connected man could have been on Israel's side. But to be a king and deliverer on God's terms, means that a man must become nothing. He must learn that God is everything, and he is nothing, if not a hindrance. Accused of murdering a citizen of Egypt, with its attendant death penalty, Moses must run like a dog with its tail between its legs. He is at once, by his "mighty deeds" disqualified from leading God's people.

Similar to Paul's 14 years in isolation, Moses is trained in private by God in a cauldron of heat and thirst for 40 years. We know very little of what happened to Moses in those 40 years, but we know that at the end of it, he was at an all-time low. He was not in the Wilderness, but in "the back-side" of the Wilderness (Ex.3:1) - with the only conversation being the bleating ofsheep. And after meeting Jehovah at the burning bush, we find that he is neither, "mighty in deed nor word". The once "mighty in word and deeds" must take for himself a spokesman - Aaron. Surely this man is clearly unsuitable to lead 2 million rebels out of Egypt to Canaan?

But something had happened to Moses. The training and its defeats, under the hand of Jehovah, had molded a special man. It was a man with all the skill and knowledge to build a Pyramid, but who could lead sheep in the wilderness with affection, for whe these sheep rebelled and were in danger of annihilation, Moses bridged the gap as Mediator and even offered himself as substitute. But this sheer courage and clever dealing with God is tempered by a sure knowledge that God chooses - and not man. So when Korah and his hoard rebel (and they had a good argument), Moses throws himself face-down onto the dusty desert floor. What Korah never learned in his lifetime was what Moses was INTIMATE with. God chooses, and you can do what you like, but God will prevail. The word "meek" is different to the word "humble". Humble means you know your lowly position, but meek means you accept everything that happens to you. Now, where did Moses learn that?

Moses is upheld by God and Korah disappears bodily into Hades. How different it was when Moses' time came to step back. After leading God's people, mediating between God and Israel, receiving the Law and the pattern of God's House, Moses must remove himself from the door of the tabernacle - for God has another High Priest of HIS choice - Aaron. And there is no word of complaint from Moses that that coveted position should have been his - not Aaron who built the golden calf. Is God at all fair? Moses does not even think that way. Why? Because, as the Psalm above says, "Moses KNEW God's WAYS". Whatever had happened to Moses in those 40 years of heat, thirst and bleating sheep, HE KNEW HIS GOD. And so, after 80 years of training, and 40 years of leading a stiff-necked and rebellious people in the dreaded Sinai, Moses could cast his fate into the hands of that God he knew "face to face". He was found unsuitable to enter the Good Land. Surely that broke his heart?

But NO! Meekness is not easily learned, but when it has stuck, it serves a man very well. Moses, who had watched God be so merciful to a stiff-necked, rebellious and idolatrous people, receives no mercy himself. But he harbors no evil thoughts toward his God, for he KNOWS that God is righteous. And surely, centuries later, God sends an arch-angel to get Moses' BODY back for one single reason. Moses might not enter the Good Land in temporal chastisement, but God does not forget service. And Moses, of all men in the Old Testament, may join Elijah. "... in the holy mount", to witness ".... the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ", and be, "... eyewitnesses of his majesty", hearing, "a voice to him from the excellent glory"! (2nd Peter 1:16-18)

THAT ... is the fate of a man who KNOWS GOD INTIMATELY! What fame! What honor! "... in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore" (Ps.16:11)!

The process of coming to spiritual maturity is based upon coming to “know” the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ. This does not mean that we come to “know about God,” but that we come to “know God.”

We may have heard about some worthy person in our community from others. We may have read about what they have done and studied and admired their life story. But until we have met and conversed with them in some way and for some time and sensed something of their inner being and their motives, we can’t say that we really “know” them.

Thus growing in our “knowledge” of God is not an intellectual or emotional process. Rather, it is the result of an ongoing experience of “fellowship” brought about by the “Spirit of wisdom and revelation” doing his work within our innermost being.

Jesus told us that we start to pray by saying “our Father” (Matthew 6:9). In other words we are to talk to God as a child would to its parent. We can tell him how we feel, what our immediate needs are and bring the needs of others and ask him to do something about them.

But transcending all this, we start to come to an understanding of his eternal goals and how he wants us to become involved in bringing them to fulfillment. In this way we can learn to leave our own needs to him and become absorbed in whatever he wants to do in the sphere in which he calls us to be involved.

yes The Word -- Christ -- is The Origin

unless He chooses to reveal the Father to someone, they cannot know Him

I enjoyed your post and believe we have a lot to learn from Moses's life as you said. However, we need to bear in mind, the following:

We are told in John 1: 18, that no man has seen God at any time except His only begotten Son Jesus Christ who has declared Him. Moses we are told saw the similitude of God (Numbers 12:8}) and therefore never knew or declared God in His fullness, so also were the Prophets and Patriarchs of old.

In Exodus 33 : 13, we read (Moses telling God) --- if I have found grace in your sight, now show me your way that I may know you and God said, my presence shall go with you and I will give you rest. Again, Moses asked God to show him, His glory (Exodus 33:18) and God responded ---- you cannot see my face for there shall no man see my face and live. Behold, there is a place by me and you shall stand upon a rock and it shall come to pass while my glory pass by, that I will put you in a clift of the rock and will cover you with my hand and you shall see my back parts but my face shall not be seen. (Exodus 33:20.-23).

God did not reveal Himself fully to Moses. As a result, Moses could not express or declare God’s fullness neither can any of us know and express the fullness of God on the basis of His dealings with Moses and the Israelites of old even though Moses was a true servant and Prophet of God. Their lives serve as lessons to us. As St Paul said, the Levitical Priesthood cannot lead us to Perfection.

How scrience and the bible are related is also an interesting study. It wasn't until after Christ that the function of the brain was acknowledged. they thought the heart performed like we think the brain performs. When the function of the brain was accepted, It put new light on scripture. Then the heart was accepted as operating completely apart from the brain, making science rule over scripture. Now it is found that scripture is correct as it speaks of the heart and mind.

Whether the earth is round or square as science and the bible work together was interesting. People read of the four corners of the earth spoken of and said the bible teaches a square earth. When it was proven the earth was round there was great upset. The results of that is a better understanding of scripture

I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the
Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. (Ephesians 1:17, NIV)

I enjoyed your post and believe we have a lot to learn from Moses's life as you said. However, we need to bear in mind, the following:

We are told in John 1: 18, that no man has seen God at any time except His only begotten Son Jesus Christ who has declared Him. Moses we are told saw the similitude of God (Numbers 12:8}) and therefore never knew or declared God in His fullness, so also were the Prophets and Patriarchs of old.

In Exodus 33 : 13, we read (Moses telling God) --- if I have found grace in your sight, now show me your way that I may know you and God said, my presence shall go with you and I will give you rest. Again, Moses asked God to show him, His glory (Exodus 33:18) and God responded ---- you cannot see my face for there shall no man see my face and live. Behold, there is a place by me and you shall stand upon a rock and it shall come to pass while my glory pass by, that I will put you in a clift of the rock and will cover you with my hand and you shall see my back parts but my face shall not be seen. (Exodus 33:20.-23).

God did not reveal Himself fully to Moses. As a result, Moses could not express or declare God’s fullness neither can any of us know and express the fullness of God on the basis of His dealings with Moses and the Israelites of old even though Moses was a true servant and Prophet of God. Their lives serve as lessons to us. As St Paul said, the Levitical Priesthood cannot lead us to Perfection.

Yes, I agree. I personally have never found any difficulty in reconciling my faith with Science.

It was in 1956 while studying Relativity, Quantum Mechanics et‑al in my final year of Science, that I started, for the first time in my life, to think about God. I can still remember saying to friends, at that time, “there must be a God.” It was in the next year or so that I knelt down at my bedside and accepted Jesus Christ as my Saviour.

The Bible is not a book of Science it is a book of Redemption. It tells us about Creation in the first two chapters, about the fall in Chapter 3. From there to the end of Revelation it deals with Redemption, that is the rescuing the human race from the consequences of rebellion against the Creator of the Universe. It tells us who created the Universe, not how.

The debate about the age of the Universe is, to my mind, of little value. God could have, if he had so chosen, set the wheels in motion 13.7 billion years ago. He would have known its destiny down to the last quark and muon. He could also have, just as easily, created it all in 6 days or, for that matter, in 6 nanoseconds, backdating the carbon atoms in the process (Matthew 11:25).