HOW MANY HOURS WAS JESUS DEAD ON THE CROSS?

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MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
#101
Sep 5, 2014
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#101
GraceAndTruth said:
Watchman Nee is considered apostate if not heretical. He is listed in every Christian cult watch.
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Hi! It isn't wise to be too quick to believe hearsay about Christians of the past, as being human - they don't always tell the truth. Or in some cases - were purposely incorrect. I've read many of his writings, and I see nothing wrong with what I've read of that. To me, he seems to have been a true child of God - and did much preaching for God - and was headed for heaven.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#102
Sep 28, 2015
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#102
MyrtleTrees said:
Hi! It isn't wise to be too quick to believe hearsay about Christians of the past, as being human - they don't always tell the truth. Or in some cases - were purposely incorrect. I've read many of his writings, and I see nothing wrong with what I've read of that. To me, he seems to have been a true child of God - and did much preaching for God - and was headed for heaven.
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Nee has been in the cult watch for years.
He denies the trinity...thats enough for me.
 
MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
#103
Sep 5, 2014
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#103
posthuman said:
passover is both a specific day & a week-long festival. days are counted sunset to sunset.

Christ died at exactly the same time the seder lamb was slain in the temple, wednesday. this isn't a sabbath day - work could be done but had to be completed before sundown, which marks the beginning of the next day.

the next day was a high sabbath of the festival, unleavened bread, thursday. no work could be done. they rested

the day after that, they bought spices and prepared them ((apparently not knowing that Nicodemus - wise man that he is - had already done this and had them waiting before Gethsemane, along with Joseph of Arimathea, also wise, who had a tomb prepared)) friday. this is the only day they had in which they could buy and sell and do work

the third day was the weekly sabbath, saturday. they rested.

Christ rose before dawn on the 8th day which is the 1st, sunday. this is the day of the festival of firstfruits, and God chose this day to rise, so that He, the Lamb that was slain, might be the Firstfruits of the dead.

3 days and three nights:
wednesday night / thursday day ((unleavened bread high sabbath))
thursday night / friday day ((preparation day))
friday night / saturday day ((weekly sabbath))

firstfruits begins at sundown saturday night. a high day but not a sabbath. the 8th day.
before dawn the women came with the spices they had prepared friday afternoon, and found that He had risen.

:)
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Hi! Ok - maybe you're correct on these figures.
 
MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
#104
Sep 5, 2014
804
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#104
rstrats said:
Myrtle Trees,
re: "I think you're right about that - it does say the next day was the Sabbath, or sometimes says it in this way: 'the day of preparation.'"

I'm not aware where the the Sabbath is ever referred to as the day of preparation. What do you have in mind?
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Hi! Maybe I had in mind - for one thing, that in the wilderness trip with Moses - people were to prepare the manna before the Sabbath so they wouldn't have to work on the Sabbath. But still, the subject is confusing to me. For example, calling any day - "the day of preparation" besides the one preceding Jesus' death on the cross. And if the feast of the Passover would last 7 days - I wonder again, which day would be appropriate for calling "the day of preparation?"

Ok - so evidently, the seven days of unleavened bread preceded the day in which the Passover lamb was killed and eaten.

Ex 12:15

15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
KJV
And during that feast of unleavened bread, no one was to work.
Ex 12:16

16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
KJV
The feast of unleavened bread would start on the 14th day of the month - until the 21st. Then, the lamb must have been killed on the 21st, it sounds like - and eaten in the evening - and none was to remain of it till morning.

It has been a while since I last studied about this. But maybe it's coming clearer now. In view of the fact that Jesus rose up from the dead on the first day of the week - Sunday - and it sounds like He died the very same day He was crucified - the amount of time to allow for His being dead for 3 days, would mean it was 3 days before Sunday AM. That's what it sounds like so far.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#105
Jul 31, 2013
37,782
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#105
Dino246 said:
I don't argue it either way, but I also don't accept (what I consider) too-simple explanations. Jesus said, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;" in Luke 22:15. He wasn't confused, and He wasn't wrong about the day.

I think the problem is that people think that He died at the moment the Passover lambs were being slaughtered, but that association is not stated clearly in Scripture. It's a reasonable speculation, but doesn't explain how He and the disciples could eat a meal that had not been prepared yet.
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thanks for keeping me honest
i had been repeating what my pastor had said in an old sermon -- with regard to the day the national passover lamb was slain. it is documented that in the temple they would kill a lamb at 3pm, tho whether they did it during the day before passover meal, or the day of passover ((which would be the day Christ was crucified)), there are some conflicting accounts.
i should ask him about it -- it would be pretty strange for him to have said this without some justification -- but in either case it is in searching out answers to the question "why 3pm?"
God chose exactly the timing He had purposed to do these things, and recorded them for us.
so if the national lamb was being slain at 3 the day before passover, and Christ died at that time on passover, there's still a significance to that.
 
MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
#106
Sep 5, 2014
804
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#106
GraceAndTruth said:
Nee has been in the cult watch for years.
He denies the trinity...thats enough for me.
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I've seen absolutely no statement of any kind like that in any of his books he wrote- which I've read. In fact, I read that he believed in the trinity of God. And in the proper sense.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#107
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
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#107
The last supper was
MyrtleTrees said:
I've seen absolutely no statement of any kind like that in any of his books he wrote- which I've read. In fact, I read that he believed in the trinity of God. And in the proper sense.
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Then you must do what you must do.
I just think recommending him to what may be babes in Christ is not edifying for them.
I don't recommed any author or pastor, for that very reason.
I may quote from one from time to time, but I don't feel that is suggesting someone else read them.

Just my opinion. We all know what opinions are worth, right? ;)
 
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reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#108
Mar 23, 2016
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#108
MyrtleTrees said:
Hi! Maybe I had in mind - for one thing, that in the wilderness trip with Moses - people were to prepare the manna before the Sabbath so they wouldn't have to work on the Sabbath.
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Concerning collecting of manna, the children of Israel were to go out each day and gather the manna needed for the household for the day. If they gathered more than the household needed for the day, the excess manna would spoil and "stink" – Exodus 16:15-20.

On the day before the sabbath, they were to gather enough for two days, prepare meals for two days. Interestingly enough, the excess manna did not spoil/stink from this gathering – Exodus 16:21-24.




MyrtleTrees said:
But still, the subject is confusing to me. For example, calling any day - "the day of preparation" besides the one preceding Jesus' death on the cross. And if the feast of the Passover would last 7 days - I wonder again, which day would be appropriate for calling "the day of preparation?"
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First, the Passover was one day – the fourteenth day of the first month – Leviticus 23:5.

The Feast of Unleavened Bread lasted seven days – beginning on the fifteenth (just as Passover was ending, the Feast of Unleavened Bread was beginning). The first day and the seventh day of the Unleavened Bread Feast were “holy convocations” in which no work was to be done – Leviticus 23:6-9.

As far as the "the day of preparation", the preparation was longer than just a day.

According to Exodus 12:3-6, the lamb was to be selected on the tenth day of the month and kept until the fourteenth day of the month. In addition, according to Exodus 12:15-20 all leaven was to be removed from the home and nothing leavened was to be eaten during the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

So in John 19:14, 19:31, 19:42 the term used is "the preparation" which is Scripturally accurate. In John 19:42 the word "day" is in italics which indicates the word was added by the translators. It wasn’t just one day of preparation. The "preparation" took more than one day … from the selection of the lamb on the tenth day of the month to the complete removing of leaven from the home in which all leaven was to be removed by the fifteenth day of the month.


John 19:42 states that Joseph of Arimathaea and Nicodemus brought the body of Jesus to the sepulchre and laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation.

The Jews considered the days just prior to Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread as "preparation".


Passover begins at sunset on the thirteenth day of Nisan and lasts until sunset on the fourteenth day of Nisan … the Feast of Unleavened bread begins as Passover is ending. The two commemorations kind of join together at that point.




MyrtleTrees said:
Ok - so evidently, the seven days of unleavened bread preceded the day in which the Passover lamb was killed and eaten.
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No. The Feast of Unleavened Bread does not precede Passover.




MyrtleTrees said:
The feast of unleavened bread would start on the 14th day of the month - until the 21st. Then, the lamb must have been killed on the 21st, it sounds like - and eaten in the evening - and none was to remain of it till morning.
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No. The Feast of Unleavened Bread begins on the fifteenth day:

Leviticus 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.


Passover is on the fourteenth day:

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.



 
I

infinitekhanol

Active member
#109
Jul 11, 2020
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#109
MyrtleTrees said:
Watchman Nee (in a book I'm reading) sounds like he said Jesus was on the cross for 6 hours.
"So far as the experience of co-death in the Christian life is concerned, it is mainly included in this representative period six hours."
I checked the account of the Passover on this matter, in Numbers 9.
Num 9:3
3 In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it.
KJV
Num 9:12
12 They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it.
KJV
But according to this chart I found online, it sounds like He was dead on the cross for 3 hours, judging by the details of the Passover, as to having started in the evening, and that eating of it was to finish before morning. So maybe he guessed a bit incorrectly, as to how long Jesus was dead on the cross.
https://www.theisraelofgodrc.com/Hebrew
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I think St Paul's words to Timothy in 1 Timothy 1: 4 is apt for you here too. Do not give heed to fables and endless genealogies which minister to questions rather than godly edifying which is in faith so do.
 
MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
#110
Sep 5, 2014
804
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#110
infinitekhanol said:
I think St Paul's words to Timothy in 1 Timothy 1: 4 is apt for you here too. Do not give heed to fables and endless genealogies which minister to questions rather than godly edifying which is in faith so do.
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Hi! I understand Watchman Nee to have been a true, dedicated child of God, and have read a number of his books. But he like any human - is not to be trusted above the Bible. We all need to remember that, and prayerfully avoid being overly swayed by human opinion on spiritual matters.
 
MyrtleTrees

MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
#111
Sep 5, 2014
804
317
63
#111
reneweddaybyday said:
Concerning collecting of manna, the children of Israel were to go out each day and gather the manna needed for the household for the day. If they gathered more than the household needed for the day, the excess manna would spoil and "stink" – Exodus 16:15-20.

On the day before the sabbath, they were to gather enough for two days, prepare meals for two days. Interestingly enough, the excess manna did not spoil/stink from this gathering – Exodus 16:21-24.





First, the Passover was one day – the fourteenth day of the first month – Leviticus 23:5.

The Feast of Unleavened Bread lasted seven days – beginning on the fifteenth (just as Passover was ending, the Feast of Unleavened Bread was beginning). The first day and the seventh day of the Unleavened Bread Feast were “holy convocations” in which no work was to be done – Leviticus 23:6-9.

As far as the "the day of preparation", the preparation was longer than just a day.

According to Exodus 12:3-6, the lamb was to be selected on the tenth day of the month and kept until the fourteenth day of the month. In addition, according to Exodus 12:15-20 all leaven was to be removed from the home and nothing leavened was to be eaten during the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

So in John 19:14, 19:31, 19:42 the term used is "the preparation" which is Scripturally accurate. In John 19:42 the word "day" is in italics which indicates the word was added by the translators. It wasn’t just one day of preparation. The "preparation" took more than one day … from the selection of the lamb on the tenth day of the month to the complete removing of leaven from the home in which all leaven was to be removed by the fifteenth day of the month.


John 19:42 states that Joseph of Arimathaea and Nicodemus brought the body of Jesus to the sepulchre and laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation.

The Jews considered the days just prior to Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread as "preparation".


Passover begins at sunset on the thirteenth day of Nisan and lasts until sunset on the fourteenth day of Nisan … the Feast of Unleavened bread begins as Passover is ending. The two commemorations kind of join together at that point.





No. The Feast of Unleavened Bread does not precede Passover.





No. The Feast of Unleavened Bread begins on the fifteenth day:

Leviticus 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.


Passover is on the fourteenth day:

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.
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Hi! Yes, it's amazing how leftover manna didn't spoil! But there were lots of miracles like that throughout Old Testament times - all through God of course.

You say that the feast of unleavened bread didn't begin before the Passover meal. But why does this passage below, call the meal He had with the 12 disciples, "the feast of unleavened bread" and "the Passover?" Which implies they were both connected as being part of the same feast. So maybe the feast Jesus had with the disciples - was in the period called "the feast of unleavened bread" and then maybe the Passover took place some time after that.

Matt 26:17

17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
KJV
 
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reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#112
Mar 23, 2016
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#112
MyrtleTrees said:
You say that the feast of unleavened bread didn't begin before the Passover meal. But why does this passage below, call the meal He had with the 12 disciples, "the feast of unleavened bread" and "the Passover?" Which implies they were both connected as being part of the same feast. So maybe the feast Jesus had with the disciples - was in the period called "the feast of unleavened bread" and then maybe the Passover took place some time after that.

Matt 26:17

17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
KJV
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Look at God's instruction for the Passover meal in Exodus 12:1-20. Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread are intertwined. The one (Passover) runs right with the other (Feast of Unleavened Bread).


According to Ex 12:8, no unleavened bread was to be eaten with the Passover meal ...


One thing we need to remember is that the Jewish day ends / begins at sunset. So at the time the Passover meal was actually eaten, the 14th was ending (Passover) and the 15th was beginning (Feast of Unleavened Bread).


Exodus 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.


Leviticus 23:5-6 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.



 
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rstrats

Senior Member
#113
Aug 28, 2011
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#113
reneweddayb,
re: "...the Passover was one day – the fourteenth day of the first month..."

So assuming the Passover got its name from the passing over of the Lord at midnight, does that mean it took place at midnight on the 14th?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#115
Jul 3, 2015
59,917
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#115
rstrats said:
reneweddayb,
re: "...the Passover was one day – the fourteenth day of the first month..."

So assuming the Passover got its name from the passing over of the Lord at midnight, does that mean it took place at midnight on the 14th?
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Your question does not make a lot of sense. Please clarify...

Since as already been stated, Passover is a day lasting from sundown to sunup.

rstrats said:
reneweddaybyday,

You have a question directed to you in post #113.
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What you have done is linked to the user's profile page.

To alert them through notification, you must @reneweddaybyday :)
 
R

rstrats

Senior Member
#116
Aug 28, 2011
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#116
Magenta,
re: "Your question does not make a lot of sense. Please clarify..."

I don't see why you think that it doesn't.



re: "Since as already been stated, Passover is a day lasting from sundown to sunup."

I don't see the relevance to the question.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#117
Mar 23, 2016
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#117
rstrats said:
reneweddayb,
re: "...the Passover was one day – the fourteenth day of the first month..."

So assuming the Passover got its name from the passing over of the Lord at midnight, does that mean it took place at midnight on the 14th?
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Hi rstrats ... apologies for not getting back to you sooner and thanks to @Magenta for bringing your question to my attention.

In Leviticus, God gave instruction concerning the feasts to be observed by the children of Israel. Passover was one of the feasts. Leviticus 23:5 ... In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.


In Deuternomy 16 we read:

Deuteronomy 16:1-2 Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the LORD thy God: for in the month of Abib the LORD thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night. Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the LORD thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the LORD shall choose to place his name there.


Passover is at even on the fourteenth day of the first month and it is to be a memorial to remind the children of Israel of God's deliverance from the bondage of Egypt.



 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#118
Jul 3, 2015
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#118
rstrats said:
Magenta,
re: "Your question does not make a lot of sense. Please clarify..."

I don't see why you think that it doesn't.

re: "Since as already been stated, Passover is a day lasting from sundown to sunup."

I don't see the relevance to the question.
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You said:

assuming the Passover got its name from the passing over of the Lord
at midnight, does that mean it took place at midnight on the 14th?

Passover lasts a day. What are you asking about happening at midnight?

Did what happen at midnight??? Of course it is a relevant question.

Since a day has 24 hours and you pose a question about midnight.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#120
Jul 3, 2015
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#120
rstrats said:
So you're saying that the passing over of the Lord was at midnight on the 14th?
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Are you asking about the time of day Jesus gave up His spirit?

He was not on the cross at midnight.
 
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