Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

Nothing except GOD's WILL precedes his grace. Not even the distorted version you have of faith (which YOU DO NOT CONSIDER AS GOD'S GIFT BUT THAT OF YOUR OWN INTELLECTUAL ABILITIES). The gift of faith that follows God's grace, is a childlike belief (requiring no argumentation, or self righteousness) that Jesus / Yeshua died gracefully for the sins of those that belief is like a child.

Let's

let's put it in reverse so you may see it .
8For by your own deeds are ye saved through works ; and that not of God : it is the striving and working :
9Not of grace , so any man should boast.

Nothing except GOD's WILL precedes his grace. Not even the distorted version you have of faith (which YOU DO NOT CONSIDER AS GOD'S GIFT BUT THAT OF YOUR OWN INTELLECTUAL ABILITIES). The gift of faith that follows God's grace, is a childlike belief (requiring no argumentation, or self righteousness) that Jesus / Yeshua died gracefully for the sins of those that belief is like a child.

If you say grace is the gift of God, this "And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God" is a redundancy, if it does not refer to the saved person's kind of childlike faith. And then you want to say that faith is or your own doing, but that kind of faith is not a work? Please tell me how a small little child or incapacitated individual arrives at that kind of grace before death, that first requires their non-gifted faith as comprehendible pre-requisite? Faith is the gift of God (as is grace - as per definition of the word).

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Faith is not a super power .

The Lords prayer is an old testament prayer for the Jews Jesus was responding to . We have a direct personal individual , approach to God as a believer today.

Grace is not works (Rom. 11:6); works are not grace (Rom. 11:6). God will not justify a man who

The saved Gentile is reconciled to God (as the saved Jew) by accepting the sacrificial death of Jesus. Simple .

Try it like this . For its not by works you were saved . Wow !!! you mean I don't have to do anything? " no its by grace not of works ' . You mean I don't have to become a Proselyte? No my friend its by grace . It s God's riches at Christ's expense . His expense ? wow. Its really free and no strings ? " yeah man , its free or its no longer grace if its by works. " Awesome how do I recieve ? " Glad you asked , Through faith. Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved .
" I just believe ? no works? no circumcision? Baptism , tithing? My promise to surrender , my commitment? To make Jesus Lord of all ? fasting? charity work? church membership ? helping old ladies across the road ? confessing? standing on my head ?
Wow its a free gift ? this is too good to be true . Surely I have to do something ? " No ,otherwise its no longer grace . Grace and works cannot mix . So no one can boast . Amen .

Agreed partially. When receiving God's FREE GIFT OF GRACE AND FAITH (faith is not a work, it is a gift from God, for those who are saved), we are saved FOR GOOD WORKS PREPARED BY GOD.


Ephesians 2 (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Grace is not works (Rom. 11:6); works are not grace (Rom. 11:6). God will not justify a man who “works at it” (Rom. 4:5), for by works shall no man be justified (Gal. 3:11). Salvation is not merely a “GIFT” (Eph. 2:8), it is a “free gift” (Rom. 5:15), freely given (Rom. 5:16). This “unspeakable GIFT” (2 Cor. 9:15) cannot be purchased or borrowed, and it certainly cannot be stolen (John 10:1–5). It is a “gift of righteousness” (Rom. 5:17) given by the Holy Ghost (Acts 8:20), and only the man who believes on Christ to the point of RECEIVING HIM (John 1:12) gets the gift. You get no gift without receiving it.

We should yes .

Agreed, and I would say that it is a GOD-GIVEN GIFT IF SOMEONE BELIEVES ON CHRIST WITH HIS GOD-GIVEN FAITH.

From the scriptures we can see what these works are that were prepared. Namely preaching the Gospel and building up the saints ect .

That faith came from hearing the Gospel.

It is a God-given miracle when the Gospel reach another saved individual, and the end will come when it has been proclaimed to all the nations of the whole world (to where Israel were scattered, after breaking the old covenant) and Israel / the Body of Christ will then be completely renewed under the new covenant.


Matthew 24 (ESV)

12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The gospel of the kingdom will be preached during the tribulation. They will have to endure. The church will not be there having been raptured out ..Praise God ..

I agree with many things you said on this subject, and on the things i can agree with as being accurate according to the scriptures - I can say you expressed well!

One thing I couldn't agree on - was your saying that since it didn't state that David's sin against Bathsheba endangered his salvation. God knew ahead of time that David would repent, and so He was all prepared to forgive Him and did so after David repented. But I know of many others who fell away from God through personal choice - in the scriptures. And also know that the New Testament warns believers against falling away, and explains how to prevent it.

Yes as in many Bible subjects - many true Christians are unable to agree alike. But we all learn more of God's truths with time, if we remain sincere and diligent in living for Him. As always, the Bible is to be trusted above all else.

Scriptures do not convey a message of pre-tribulation rapture of the Body of Christ nor separating the Body of Christ from restored Israel under King Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach.

Concerning the tribulation, God's elect will not fear, but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. The great tribulation will not be a tribulation at all, for those that are not from God's elect, as they will go on with their lives as they would have taken the mark of the beast. Pre-tribulation rapture is a false hope teaching not founded in scripture. The rapture is at the end of all ages, at the second coming of Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Messiah, for his elect people, he will come down from heaven, the dead will be raised, and those that have died in Christ will together with those who are alive in Christ, meet Christ in the sky. Those that will be left behind at the rapture of Yeshua ha'Mashiach's / Jesus the Messiah's second coming, will be destroyed by the fire that will consume what is left of the earth.

Matthew 24 (ESV)

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, 'Look, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out. If they say, 'Look, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

2 Thessalonians 2 (ESV)

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

After the great tribulation, this is when the true rapture happens, at the return of Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Messiah:

1 Thessalonians 4 (ESV)

15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
Revelation 7 (ESV)

9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" 11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen." 13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?" 14 I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.

There are several points you made correctly but several are incorrect.

You said... "It isn't true Jesus didn't baptize anyone." Incorrect. Jesus is not known to have ever baptized anyone. The statement in John 3:22, is clarified in John 4:2. His disciples did the work on Jesus' behalf and thus it was attributed to Him as one and the same. I do agree that the disciples were not mentioned as to being baptized, however, it would be logical to conclude they probably were. Since Christ Himself was baptized by John.... they probably followed Him in this act. We do know that the thief on the cross was never baptized.

I don't follow your point as to Baptism in the Spirit, since this baptism did not replace water baptism. And to the point of Baptism in the Spirit, Scripture does not teach individual Spirit Baptism. All references to being Baptized in the Spirit, always, took place collectively. That is on a group of believers. (The first was on the Jews. The second on the Gentiles.).

Water baptism does not save anyone. It is never seen in Scripture as an ordinance to Salvation; rather it is because of Salvation (Conversion) that one is compelled to follow Christ in this ordinance. It is by the believer, the first obedient act unto God.

Yes, obedience to God, without having a relationship with Him is completely useless as far as concerns their status with God and as regards to what they can hope for in their eternity. Paul, a Pharisee - like other Pharisees - had been very strict to obey God in some ways at least (though Jesus said Pharisees also purposely overlooked some of God's laws). But that couldn't save him. Obeying God's laws without having a relationship with God - through having accepted Him as Lord and Savior of one's life - is what it means when it says it isn't possible to be saved by obedience to God's laws.

The gospel is what saves people - that's true. But to be saved by the gospel - one needs to come to full repentance of sin, first. And be willing to let God take control of his life thereafter. And be wiling to prayerfully and always - do one's best to obey God's laws (the New Testament ones - which are in accordance with the teachings of the gospel). And to be wiling to always sincerely repent of all unintentional sins, on a daily basis. Showing repentance of sins regularly - can be seen in the model prayer Jesus made for the disciples to use - called, "The Lord's prayer."