Faith without works is dead - Bonhoeffer

I'm sorry. I don't know what you mean by "follow that about David"? I also am puzzled about Abraham's work for the Lord. Could you show it. Thanks and God bless.

"Faith without works is dead" (James 2:20) does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no evidential works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Anything that is dead was once alive... so what is James really addressing here?

"Spurious faith" not likely since he is addressing believers.

Amen they were born with a dead faith and it remained dead
James was addressing hearers if the word only, people who claimed to Have faith but in reality had no faith at all. Just mere belief

I believe Faith in Jesus also mean love Jesus, because faith mean trust or believe in jesus teaching and the main teaching of jesus is love.

So It is imposible have a faith in Jesus but hate Jesus.

How about murder or envy is that mean hate Jesus?
Murder mean hate other and John say
1 John 4
20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

So base oN that verse murder is hate Jesus, or do not have faith or not save.

That doesn't mean after Being Christian never commit sin, but we have to repent or go to hell.

Now is faith always produce good work

A. We learn Love Jesus mean love other, 1 John 4:20, that may mean helping other in need, It may mean work, helping poor and elder to fix her leaving roof because she don't have money to pay handyman but It is not always, we may love her but we may don't know to fix the roof and don't have money to help her pay handyman.

Faith = love, It may mean work but not always

But

Faith not hate.
Eg murder, envy and other sin.

I don't believe because we are Christian, murder No longer mean hell.
Jesus pay our sin If we have faith in Him.

Remember

Faith mean love.

Repent from our daily sin is not only keep our reward but keep our salvation.

Faith = love
Love may produce good work, may not but love not produce bad work like envy etc.

For loving person that poor and sick, love may not produce work or money, but as long as this person have faith, he save.

For normal, healthy and wealthy person, I believe faith mean good work

They were born with dead faith

So you believe living faith produce good work?

James 1

2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.

Verse 3 .... testing of your faith

So James talk to faith holder or Christian.

And there are not many who do good works, have evidential works and are not saved?

I wonder what faith looks like for the unemployed or underemployed.

I picture people lying on their beds sleeping...or they could be just dead.

Through Abraham obeyed the Lord even to the extent of willing to sacrifice his beloved son. Abraham was willing to do the extreme work if the Lord asked it of him, that is the ultimate in faith.

David was a sinner. He was committed adultery with Bathsheba, and did what amounted to murder of her husband.

If we follow Abraham, we will be able to follow up our faith in the Lord by doing whatever the Lord asks of us. If we follow David, we will repent of our sins and then live as the Lord asks best we can.

Thank you for clarifying. You are right. Abraham had great faith, and obedience came out it. But wait .... Did not God promise Abraham seed as the sand of the seashore? And yet when Abraham went down to Egypt and to Philistia, he twice ordered his wife to tell lies to save his life. But if he was dead, how could he have had seed? He had not yet had a son. Telling your wife to lie is a WORK that shows NO FAITH in God's Word or His ability? If he believed God he would never think he could be killed till he had a son.

Who do you think failed worse - Abraham or David?

Hi Duskey, I would say not working for/working at/working up/etc., but yes to, "working out"/expressing outwardly in action, the salvation that I ~already~ possess, the salvation that the Lord has ~already~ worked in me .. e.g. Philippians 2:12-13.

Of course, that's me. I can't speak for MyrtleTrees, but it seems like she is saying much the same thing. @MyrtleTrees

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - both Luther and Calvin said this concerning sola fide (see below), and I agree. True, saving faith always leads to/results in/is seen/demonstrated/justified before men by a changed life .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:10; James 2:18, 24.

We are siner and so does Abraham or David, but David regret what he did and repent, If we murder every month for money and not repent, we go to hell, because faith mean trust Jesus teaching and His teaching is to love not to murder.
Christian doesn't mean license to murder or to sin.

Hi Deut, no doubt we are to let out light shine before others, but it’s so that God may be glorified, not for earning or maintaining our salvation with which I believe you agree. God bless you brother.

So you believe murder and not repent, not make you lose your salvation?

First of all, it is not just believing God's Word. It is specifically believing and obeying the Gospel -- repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. And faith toward Christ means unreserved belief in the deity and finished work of Christ, as well as all that is revealed about Him in Scripture.

Secondly, we need to be very clear about the relationship of obedience to God, Christ, and His Word, and salvation. Salvation (eternal life) is God's free GIFT OF GRACE to the one who believes on Christ. At the same time those who receive Christ as Lord and Savior will strive to obey Him and His Word. But obedience FOLLOWS salvation. The first step of obedience is Christian baptism.

Matt 7
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Only few Find It

Find what? Find salvation, mean only few save

Hmm Jesus teach scary teaching to me

And obey His teaching mean Love God and love neighbors.
So It is impossible for a man to have faith in Jesus and hate Jesus or hate his neighbors.

Murder may save as long as repent

There are people who may be good humanitarians and accomplish good things, including to help clothe and feed the poor, yet without faith it's impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6) no matter how many so called wonderful works that such people accomplish as unbelievers. (Matthew 7:21-23) Such people may even be "religious," but apart from faith in Christ they are not right with God.