Faith without works is dead - Bonhoeffer

Believing in God's Word, doesn't mean just the element of believing. It involves also - obedience to God's Word. Below, you can see how these Bible scholars in Jesus' time - in spite of their high level of Bible knowledge - had never "believed Moses". Jesus said that if they'd believed Moses, they'd have believed in His teachings too.

I listened to Detriech Bonhoeffer, last night after bedtime - in bed. He also emphasized how the reception of salvation must be accompanied with the willingness to obey God. And he said that many teach incorrectly on this - which leads many to a false assurance of having been saved. This is a serious problem, as many such people will find themselves among the rejected "goats" on Judgment Day - see Matthew 25.

John 5:44-47

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
KJV

Not familiar with Bonhoeffer, but do agree and like the verse selection. I do believe that good works will naturally proceed from a person whose heart is right with God, like apples from an apple tree.

Matthew 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

God bless you!

Are you working for your salvation?

How can we do any deed that would earn us salvation??

Janes is talking to unbelievers who claim to have faith not to true believers who had living faith

This is the plea of those who are no better than atheist among us, for in Timothy it tells us that those who do not provide for their family (this is a work) are no better than atheist. 1 Timothy 5:8.

We are given many rules in the Old testament, laws to follow. Every one of those rules is based on love: how we are to express love and the expression of God's love for us. But the base of all law is love, and Christ explained many times that you can disobey a rule and be obedient to the Lord because you are following the basic rule of love. The good Samaritan disobeyed the rule of resting on the Sabbath (that rule given for us to express love, and given for our sakes through the Lord's love for us) in order to follow the rule of love for our fellow man.

It is impossible to thumb our nose at what we are taught by the Lord and also have faith in the Lord.

It is truly impossible for us to be so holy in our actions that we earn salvation, but it is also impossible to be saved from our sins and at the same time want to keep sin in our lives.

When Christ tells us to be saved, Christ also tells us to repent.

You address a subject that bothers many. Many say that one cannot divide FAITH from WORKS - that they go together. I propose that if we DO separate them, we will settle matter with less effort. After all, in the English (and the Greek), they are two different words, and two different concepts. Let us consider Matthew 21:38-45. In verse 38, "But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance", the Pharisees in particular, and Israel in general, RECOGNIZED the HEIR - the promised Messiah. Verse 45 confirms this; "And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them." That is, the Pharisees KNEW and BELIEVED Who Jesus was. But what were their WORKS? They conspired to kill Him. FAITH and WORKS do NOT automatically go together.

No let us consider 1st Corinthians 5. Here, a "brother" commits incest and Paul (i) if he (the Apostle) is present with them, commands the handing of the man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, or (ii) if Paul is not with them, they must cease fellowship with this man and excommunicate him. At no time is the "brother" status changed. And to be a "brother", one must have the same Father. And just like 1st Corinthians 3, where some who build and have their efforts destroyed, but "yet are saved", so is the death of the "brother" in Chapter 5, "so that his spirit may be saved in that day". Here again, we have BELIEVERS who did WORKS contrary to their faith.

So what shall we say then? Do WORKS automatically follow FAITH? The answer is obviously NO! James might seem to make a case for WORKS following FAITH, but actually he does not. That is why he writes. He wrote to men who were supposed to have FAITH and asks them where their WORKS are! What then does scripture give for the tendency for a Christian to do WORKS?

1. The first one we have to deal with is a big fat NEGATIVE. We have all eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. We all have the tendency to DO something. Mostly it is evil (Romans Chapter 7), but there are WORKS that are "good". But herin lies the trap. They come from a "Death Tree". And the young Christian, if he/she is not taught this, will succumb to his/her OWN good works for years. We have been ordained to GOOD WORKS, BUT .... not our own good works. They must be "works ordained BEFORE by the Father" (Eph.2:10)
2. The second is LOVE. Not FAITH, but LOVE is a motivator to do the things Christ asks (Jn.14:21). Only those Christians who are in an intimate, loving relationship with their coming Bridegroom, will tend to OBEY him when He asks for certain works
3. The third is REWARD. The author of Hebrews, and Paul, both equate the Christian walk as an Olympic Race. REWARDS are set by God for those who OBEY Him. Some Christians will say; "That is too mercenary! We should have a higher motive for obedience to the Father, or to our Head Christ!" But God is above the thoughts of men. And He knows men. And He is righteous. Let us not question His wisdom. Let us run our race, but before we run, let us take a walk past the table that holds the trophies. Let us set the trophies in our mind and so run to ATTAIN to them. If God is pleased to give them, let us please Him and attain them. Remember David. Before he went out against Goliath, the mere ruddy teenage shepherd asks regarding the king, "What shall be done to the man that killeth this Philistine, and taketh away the reproach from Israel?" And what is the answer? "... the man who killeth him, the king will enrich him with great riches, and will give him his daughter, and make his father's house free in Israel." (1st Samuel 17:25-26)

Let us be like Abraham in FAITH, and let us be like David in WORKS. Faith is a GIFT of God, and Jesus is its AUTHOR. But WORKS are the result of paying a price - your life (Matthew 16:24)

I appreciate the insights here , thankyou .

Are you?
Then why interject that non-sequitur? Anyone who becomes a Christian knows they didn't labor to do that. It's a red herring.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works (deeds), so that no one may boast.



Another word for works is deeds.
James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

1 John 3:16-18
By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

1 Peter 1:17 And if you address as Father the one who impartially judges according to each one’s work, live out the time of your temporary residence here[ai] in reverence. 18 You know that from your empty way of life inherited from your ancestors you were ransomed—not by perishable things like silver or gold, 19 but by precious blood like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb, namely Christ. 20 He was foreknown[aj] before the foundation of the world but[ak] was manifested in these last times[al] for your sake. 21 Through him you now trust[am] in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Every Christian here will be judged before the Bema seat of God. And, for their deeds/works as recorded in the Book of Life. Because salvation is eternal life and those who are in Christ are alive in Christ. Dare we then say works means nothing in or to our Salvation? No. Beware those who try to convince you of what God tells you himself.

Revelation 20
The Great White Throne
11 Then[ac] I saw a large[ad] white throne and the one who was seated on it; the earth and the heaven[ae] fled[af] from his presence, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne. Then[ag] books were opened, and another book was opened—the book of life.[ah] So[ai] the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to their deeds.[aj] 13 The[ak] sea gave up the dead that were in it, and Death[al] and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each one was judged according to his deeds. 14 Then[am] Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. 15 If[an] anyone’s name[ao] was not found written in the book of life, that person[ap] was thrown into the lake of fire.
FOOTNOTE
tn Grk “another book was opened, which is of life.”

FOOTNOTE
tn Grk “from the things written in the books according to their works.”

Abraham's faith led him to work for the Lord. David was a great sinner, do you want to follow that about David? or do you want to follow that David repented of his sins.

False. Let the astute Christian read for themselves.
Test the spirits people!

Prejudice and the Law of Love
James 2:

Faith and Works Together
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters,[x] if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith[y] save him?[z] 15 If a brother or sister[aa] is poorly clothed and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm and eat well,” but you do not give them what the body needs,[ab] what good is it? 17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.”[ac] Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by[ad] my works. 19 You believe that God is one; well and good.[ae] Even the demons believe that—and tremble with fear.[af]

20 But would you like evidence,[ag] you empty fellow,[ah] that faith without works is useless?[ai] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that his faith was working together with his works and his faith was perfected by works. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Now Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness,”[aj] and he was called God’s friend.[ak] 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And similarly, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Footnotes
James 2:14 tn Grk “brothers.” See note on the phrase “brothers and sisters” in 1:2.
James 2:14 tn Grk “the faith,” referring to the kind of faith just described: faith without works. The article here is anaphoric, referring to the previous mention of the noun πίστις (pistis) in the verse. See ExSyn 219.
James 2:14 sn The form of the question in Greek expects a negative answer.
James 2:15 tn It is important to note that the words ἀδελφός (adelphos) and ἀδελφή (adelphē) both occur in the Greek text at this point, confirming that the author intended to refer to both men and women. See the note on “someone” in 2:2.
James 2:16 tn Grk “what is necessary for the body.”
James 2:18 tn There is considerable doubt about where the words of the “someone” end and where James’ reply begins. Some see the quotation running to the end of v. 18; others to the end of v. 19. But most punctuate as shown above. The “someone” is then an objector, and the sense of his words is something like, “Some have faith; others have works; don’t expect everyone to have both.” James’ reply is that faith cannot exist or be seen without works.
James 2:18 tn Or “from.”
James 2:19 tn Grk “you do well.”
James 2:19 tn Grk “believe and tremble.” The words “with fear” are implied.
James 2:20 tn Grk “do you want to know.”
James 2:20 tn Grk “O empty man.” Here the singular vocative ἄνθρωπε (anthrōpe, “man”) means “person” or even “fellow.” Cf. BDAG 82 s.v. ἄνθρωπος 8 which views this as an instance of rhetorical address in a letter; the pejorative sense is also discussed under the previous heading (7).
James 2:20 tc Most witnesses, including several significant ones (א A C2 P Ψ 5 33 81 436 442 1611 1735 1852 2344 2492 M al sy bo), have νεκρά (nekra, “dead”) here, while P74 reads κενή (kenē, “empty”). Both variants are most likely secondary, derived from ἀργή (argē, “useless”). The reading of the majority is probably an assimilation to the statements in vv. 17 and 26, while P74’s reading picks up on κενέ (kene) earlier in the verse. The external evidence (B C* 323 945 1175 1243 1739 sa) for ἀργή is sufficient for authenticity; coupled with the strong internal evidence for the reading (if νεκρά were original, how would ἀργή have arisen here and not in vv. 17 or 26?), it is strongly preferred.
James 2:23 sn A quotation from Gen 15:6.
James 2:23 sn An allusion to 2 Chr 20:7; Isa 41:8; 51:2; Dan 3:35 (LXX), in which Abraham is called God’s “beloved.”

Your comprehension skills are seriously lacking,

Considering the source that displays his acumen and then judges me, thank you.

Slow your roll, pussycat. Half the people on this site incorrectly proclaim works salvation and/or losable salvation. I prescribe to neither but rather embrace the absolute fullness of God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and I proclaim that with the power, glory and conviction of the Holy Spirit. No atheist here. Better luck next time, Sport, with your juvenile, incorrect assumptions.

Slow my roll pussycat?

Have you noticed? There will be the invocation that God does not change. We see it quite often in different threads.
Then, when it comes to his law, that Jesus reiterated in his teachings and said to his disciples, if you love me keep my commands, we hear the argument, God does change. Because the law he created and that Jesus reiterated isn't actually applicable to....Christians!
Because Jesus did away with the law. After he stated, if you love me keep my commands. (laws).

Endless fun.

I do NOT assume. I am 96 years old, and not juvenile, nor are my posts assumptions. I do not consider myself as anything but a tool of the Lord. If something I say is not scripture based, please be kind enough to me to tell me so and why it opposes scripture. But don't come up with false accusations.

It is not scripture based to ask "are you working for your salvation". In the first place no Christian works for his salvation. In the second place, all Christians work to not live in opposition to the righteousness they receive through Christ.

No argument here. Your assessment of me couldn’t possibly be more off base.

I admire the life of Detriech Bonhoeffer, man of courage and conviction.
I'm not sure if he gets a bad rep for works/salvation or not.
While he does not acknowledge the sovereignty of God in salvation, his idea of works seem to be the result of faith, not the cause of it.
But maybe I missed something. Some peoples can be sincere, yet sincerely wrong.

There is a huge misconception of what a 'work' might be. Since the bible is our authority, we look there for wisdom.

1 The work of ministering to the church
Hebrews 6:10
For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.
2 The work of diligently maturing in our faith
2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

3 And the work of our hands to support life
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.