Not By Works

Do you believe in salvation by grace, through faith, for works?

Ephesians 2 (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. ... 10 ... for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

You failed to mention AGAPE LOVE even ONE TIME in your explanation. It appears you are expecting to be reward for your efforts.

1 Corinthians 13:7-8 (GW)
7 Love never stops being patient, never stops believing, never stops hoping, never gives up.
8 Love never comes to an end. There is the gift of speaking what God has revealed, but it will no longer be used. There is the gift of speaking in other languages, but it will stop by itself. There is the gift of knowledge, but it will no longer be used.

TRUE AGAPE LOVE IS THE SINCERE MOTIVE for EVERY DEED, or it is worthless to GOD.

1 Corinthians 13:1-6 (GW)
1 I may speak in the languages of humans and of angels. But if I don't have love, I am a loud gong or a clashing cymbal.
{Just a BIG NOISE and nothing else.}
2 I may have the gift to speak what God has revealed, and I may understand all mysteries and have all knowledge. I may even have enough faith to move mountains. But if I don't have love, I am nothing.
3 I may even give away all that I have and give up my body to be burned. But if I don't have love, none of these things will help me.
4 Love is patient. Love is kind. Love isn't jealous. It doesn't sing its own praises. It isn't arrogant.
5 It isn't rude. It doesn't think about itself. It isn't irritable. It doesn't keep track of wrongs.
6 It isn't happy when injustice is done, but it is happy with the truth.

Everything on earth is not a reflection of God's agape love, God also hates.

Salvation is by grace alone, to those God has chosen to do so.

Romans 9 (ESV)

13 As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." 14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

As you rightly say, salvation, and discernment of the fruits, would be the presence of God's agape love, for those he elected and loves (the non-chosen he hates) by providing them grace. If God is not working in your life, he hates you and there is no agape love of God for you. If your life bears fruits (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control - is all obedience to God's commandments, as God's law is not against such things), then God's agape love is working in you.



Galatians 5 (ESV)

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control

Sigh...

Do you perfectly follow Him?
If so, why do you need His continual grace?
If you don't follow Him perfectly, that was my point...His righteousness fills in the gaps of our unrighteousness.

God gave Esau everything he promised him, yet he hated him, and Esau did not show that he received God's given works.

Do you perfectly follow Him? - No
If so, why do you need His continual grace? - Repentance is continual
If you don't follow Him perfectly, that was my point...His righteousness fills in the gaps of our unrighteousness. - Halleluyah, it's not how you fall, but how He picks you up

EVERYTHING that GOD considers GOOD, has to be DONE by us with the MOTIVE of AGAPE LOVE,
OR it is Wood, Hay, and Stubble, at BEST; or FILTHY RAGS at WORST. You can look that one up.
It is NOT that we do what HE says, IT IS WHY WE DO WHAT HE SAYS THAT HE IS INTERESTED IN.

1 Chronicles 28:9 (ESV)
9 “And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever.

Romans 8:27 (NRSV)
27 And God, who searches the heart, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Revelation 2:23 (HCSB)
23 I will kill her children with the plague. Then all the churches will know that I am the One who examines minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works.


IF AGAPE LOVE IS NOT WHY YOU SERVE THE LORD, IT IS COMPLETELY WORTHLESS TO GOD.
IF HE FINDS NO MOTIVE OF DEEP LOVE FOR HIM, AS THE MOTIVE, YOU GET NOTHING.
IF YOUR MOTIVE IS JUST TO MANIPULATE HIM INTO GIVING YOU SOMETHING, YOU GET NOTHING.

God did not hate esau, the person

thatbis a quote from Malichi,it speaks of gods greater love for jacob/israel the nation, and his lesser love/hate for esau/edom.
you need to study up on Hebrew terminology

I could not agree with you more. I wish God could save the whole world's people and all could be motivated by their love for Him, to do the works He prepared for them. We are saved by God's grace, working through our God-given faith, and God-prepared works, so we may know to discern our God-prepared fruits. A sign for one that God's grace is present, is if one witness one's God-prepared fruits, in the presence of one's agape love for God, therefor one can have the assurance that one may meet his Maker's judgement - and that God is busy drawing one nearer by grace, because of the sacrifice of Yeshua ha'Maschiach. If not then God's grace is not present, and repentance is required, if there is any agape love then for God also. A child who loves his parents, obeys his parents, not out of fear, or to please them, but know that they know what's best for him.

Malachi 1 (ESV)

2 "I have loved you," says the Lord. But you say, "How have you loved us?" "Is not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the Lord. "Yet I have loved Jacob 3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert."

Genesis 27 (ESV)

41 Now Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing with which his father had blessed him, and Esau said to himself, "The days of mourning for my father are approaching; then I will kill my brother Jacob."

You should quote the whole thing

If Edom says, "We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins," the Lord of hosts says, "They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called 'the wicked country,' and 'the people with whom the Lord is angry forever.'"

it’s a nation not a kid!

Like scattered, intermingled Israel is Jacob's children, scattered, intermingled Edom is Esau's children.

Jacob and Esau is dead at the time of Malachi - God speaks of their descendants, loved or hated forever by God in the same manner as was their fathers.

Genesis 27 (ESV)

41 Now Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing with which his father had blessed him, and Esau said to himself, "The days of mourning for my father are approaching; then I will kill my brother Jacob."

this "hated" - Hebrew Strongs number (07852) - definition "A primitive root; properly to lurk for that is persecute: - hate oppose self against.

Malachi 1 (ESV)

2 "I have loved you," says the Lord. But you say, "How have you loved us?" "Is not Esau Jacob's brother?" declares the Lord. "Yet I have loved Jacob 3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert."

this "hated" - Hebrew Strongs number (08130) - definition "A primitive root; to hate (personally): - enemy foe (be) hate(-ful -r) odious utterly.

Luke 14:26 (NKJV): 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

so in order to obey God we must HATE these people?

You are mixing the Hebrew with the Greek now? If we are both in Christ, I am not your rival, please stop provoking the patience of the Spirit - if you are indeed being provokeful. If I have in any way harm you, please state where you feel harmed, so I can make amends, I apologise beforehand for any hurt there may be on your part.

I am not providing anything
Jesus spoke to Hebrew people he did not speak in Greek and he told them to hate these people
either he meant it or what I said was right
I am not being provokefull I am trying to show a point

Ok, let's try. The quote you gave comes from the New Testament / Brit Chadashah, which was originally written in Greek, I think? The "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated" comes from the Old Testament / Tanakh.

The quote you would like to discuss now is:


Luke 14 (ESV)

26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. 27 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

as both God and Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Mesiah "hates" unrighteousness, we are called upon to "hate" the unrighteous ones that do not bear their own cross and follow him in righteousness together with us, even our old selves. If they are also following him, we are walking together, following Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Mesiah.


1 Corinthians 5 (ESV)

11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."