Not By Works
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Yep he did
he created man to love and serve, Adam and Eve decided they wanted to serve themselves. So they broke the bond with God, God restored it by sending his son, that whoever believes in him will never perish but have eternal life
I jesus own words, it is the will of him that sent me that whoever sees and believes will have eternal life, and be raised on the last day,
gods plan is about a relationship. between the creator and his creation
he created man to love and serve, Adam and Eve decided they wanted to serve themselves. So they broke the bond with God, God restored it by sending his son, that whoever believes in him will never perish but have eternal life
I jesus own words, it is the will of him that sent me that whoever sees and believes will have eternal life, and be raised on the last day,
gods plan is about a relationship. between the creator and his creation
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yep God did have a plan, it started with Gen 3: 15 and ended with the resurrection of Christ, and his plan has been whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.
i am not gonna sit here and get into some silly calvinist debate with you or anyone else, it’s foolish. brother condemning brother, have not enough been banned already,
you want to have a discussion, let’s have one, but this attainder from both sides is old and unchristlike.
i am not gonna sit here and get into some silly calvinist debate with you or anyone else, it’s foolish. brother condemning brother, have not enough been banned already,
you want to have a discussion, let’s have one, but this attainder from both sides is old and unchristlike.
According to you He knows. He just can't do (nor will do) anything about it.
And He is neutral.......... nothing than a referee or an umpire.
In other words Gods will itself is never expressed, it is only our will that is ever expressed.
In other words, this omniscient God of yours is pretty smart, has a crystal ball with which to see the future, but is also completely impotent to do or change anything about it. This out-of-control sinning creation is fully and completely in control of the situation. God is up there in the peanut gallery sweating it out.
And He is neutral.......... nothing than a referee or an umpire.
In other words Gods will itself is never expressed, it is only our will that is ever expressed.
In other words, this omniscient God of yours is pretty smart, has a crystal ball with which to see the future, but is also completely impotent to do or change anything about it. This out-of-control sinning creation is fully and completely in control of the situation. God is up there in the peanut gallery sweating it out.
have you heard of something called Freewill? 
Free will - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.. An action in the past was freely willed if and only if the agent could have willed differently; that is, not performed the action in question and, instead, done something else.
Free will - Wikipedia
Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.. An action in the past was freely willed if and only if the agent could have willed differently; that is, not performed the action in question and, instead, done something else.
2Tim 1:9
the One having saved us and having called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, having been given us in Christ Jesus before time eternal,
The free will of frail fallen human sinners is highly overrated.
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Lol. OK, God never loses when He plays dice.
Almighty God sure looks to be in complete control of the situation here.
Sinning angels and sinning men are on His leash. He can't lose and they can't win.
(Psalm 2)
1 Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 "Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us."
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion."
7 "I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall breakthem with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.' "
10Now therefore, be wise, O kings; Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.
Almighty God sure looks to be in complete control of the situation here.
Sinning angels and sinning men are on His leash. He can't lose and they can't win.
(Psalm 2)
1 Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
3 "Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us."
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 "Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion."
7 "I will declare the decree: The Lord has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You The nations for Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall breakthem with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter's vessel.' "
10Now therefore, be wise, O kings; Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.
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Nonsensical
Again this shows you have no idea of what I think
Again not getting into Calvinist argument it’s a waste of time
In other words Gods will itself is never expressed, it is only our will that is ever expressed.
In other words, this omniscient God of yours is pretty smart, has a crystal ball with which to see the future, but is also completely impotent to do or change anything about it. This out-of-control sinning creation is fully and completely in control of the situation. God is up there in the peanut gallery sweating it out.[/QUOTE]
Again this shows you have no idea of what I think
Again not getting into Calvinist argument it’s a waste of time
In other words Gods will itself is never expressed, it is only our will that is ever expressed.
In other words, this omniscient God of yours is pretty smart, has a crystal ball with which to see the future, but is also completely impotent to do or change anything about it. This out-of-control sinning creation is fully and completely in control of the situation. God is up there in the peanut gallery sweating it out.[/QUOTE]
Fear not. I believe in absolute Sovereignty as well. What things appear to be contradictory are perfectly conpatible. Our finite minds just do not fully grasp or comprehend the Mind and Purpose of God.
The Sovereignty of God is revealed in the last part of Ephesians 1:11 among other places. What Paul says there is more than enough to establish absolute Sovereignty.
The Sovereignty of God is revealed in the last part of Ephesians 1:11 among other places. What Paul says there is more than enough to establish absolute Sovereignty.
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Think of it this way.
As regards the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, how did this work?
Did God run the numbers (in eternity past), get the right result, and then green light the Salvation Project? And the myriad of prophetic elements were all by chance, God only recorded what happened? And the only reason He allowed the Salvation Project to move forward is because He looked forward in time and saw that Christ did not fail?
Or did God Himself by sheer force of will, set forth a predetermined premeditated Salvation Project, where all the people involved and all the elements involved and all of the factors involved are doing exactly what he wants them to do? No dice rolling no coin flips no nothing.
No possibility that the Salvation Project would fail, no possibility that Christ would fail, and no possibility that any of the chosen/elect would ever fail to achieve final glorification?
The Bible is unequivocal in stating the latter is true.
God was not sweating it out in eternity past, (or now same thing) running numbers on His cosmic computer, and much to His relief (that's the sweating it out part) found a working scenario dependent only upon these future players who have their own free will, and whose decisions are the only decisions that really matter!
As regards the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, how did this work?
Did God run the numbers (in eternity past), get the right result, and then green light the Salvation Project? And the myriad of prophetic elements were all by chance, God only recorded what happened? And the only reason He allowed the Salvation Project to move forward is because He looked forward in time and saw that Christ did not fail?
Or did God Himself by sheer force of will, set forth a predetermined premeditated Salvation Project, where all the people involved and all the elements involved and all of the factors involved are doing exactly what he wants them to do? No dice rolling no coin flips no nothing.
No possibility that the Salvation Project would fail, no possibility that Christ would fail, and no possibility that any of the chosen/elect would ever fail to achieve final glorification?
The Bible is unequivocal in stating the latter is true.
God was not sweating it out in eternity past, (or now same thing) running numbers on His cosmic computer, and much to His relief (that's the sweating it out part) found a working scenario dependent only upon these future players who have their own free will, and whose decisions are the only decisions that really matter!
God is much larger and His Power is much greater than any of us can create a formula for. I don’t think any theological system does justice to this topic. We need to let the Bible say what it says and not fill in any blanks.
I suggest we all stick to what the scripture clearly teaches.
I suggest we all stick to what the scripture clearly teaches.
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Correction: what I meant to say is paradox resolution occurs in higher dimensional spaces.
And God resides in the highest of all dimensional spaces and He has the most degrees of freedom and He does whatever He wills..........because He can. And nobody else can.
Paul touches on this concept all over the place in the New Testament. It's literally everywhere.
And God resides in the highest of all dimensional spaces and He has the most degrees of freedom and He does whatever He wills..........because He can. And nobody else can.
Paul touches on this concept all over the place in the New Testament. It's literally everywhere.
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There is no conflict in the mind of God, only in our finite understanding of Him. That’s all of us.
I’m still a child that expects new discoveries every time I go to the Word.
I get the sense that none of us fully comprehend God’s Decrees. I feel like there is a mixture of truth and error in all of our arguments. But that’s good, because we can learn from each other.
But everyone’s to busy trying to win the debate. That’s why it hasn’t gotten any clearer over thousands of years.
I can learn from John Bunyan and turn around and learn from John Wesley. And I can discard the things I don’t agree with too.
I’m still a child that expects new discoveries every time I go to the Word.
I get the sense that none of us fully comprehend God’s Decrees. I feel like there is a mixture of truth and error in all of our arguments. But that’s good, because we can learn from each other.
But everyone’s to busy trying to win the debate. That’s why it hasn’t gotten any clearer over thousands of years.
I can learn from John Bunyan and turn around and learn from John Wesley. And I can discard the things I don’t agree with too.
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