Not By Works

This is not the pre-temporal decision of God of His selection of people, but of His plan of redemption.

The text clearly indicates that God has predetermined, before time began, that those who are saved will not be saved according to works but by His own purpose.

This is not the pre-temporal decision of God of His selection of people, but of His plan of redemption.

The text clearly indicates that God has predetermined, before time began, that those who are saved will not be saved according to works but by His own purpose.

You see ladies and gentlemen that when you are chosen and elected (before the foundation of the world), you HAVE BEEN once and eternally saved and by held by the power of God for glorification.

Oh well, you see I am in a good mood so I can chuckle at this and your insistence of it ... however, the laugh does not last very long

when I remember the associated fact of this dogma......... which is those who were not chosen are denied regeneration and shut

out of the kingdom of Heaven and created for destruction.

You may be right. But definitely nothing to chuckle at that's for sure.

Isa 6
6:8: Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
6:9: And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
6:10: Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
6:11: Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
6:12: And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
6:13: But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

The elect the chosen the remant the Holy seed. So it was so it shall always be.

God in His sovereignty gave each man a measure of faith... truth revealed....the ability to be persuaded and choose.

Sad you deny the sovereignty of God and His plan of love extended to all who would respond to the Gospel.

I am refraining from condemning criticisms of the viewpoints of others and I would like to encourage others to improve the civil ethics on this board. I have myself been caught up in shouting matches and I don't want that to happen any longer. I am begging for a similar courtesy from yourself as well.

You may be right. But definitely nothing to chuckle at that's for sure.

Isa 6
6:8: Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
6:9: And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
6:10: Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
6:11: Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
6:12: And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
6:13: But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

The elect the chosen the remant the Holy seed. So it was so it shall always be.

I am refraining from condemning criticisms of the viewpoints of others and I would like to encourage others to improve the civil ethics on this board. I have myself been caught up in shouting matches and I don't want that to happen any longer. I am begging for a similar courtesy from yourself as well.

Disagreeing and being adamant against false teaching is what a child of God does whenever God's word is being misrepresented. False teaching is abhorrent to the Lord

Disagreeing and being adamant against false teaching is what a child of God does whenever God's word is being misrepresented. False teaching is abhorrent to the Lord

AND HIS PLAN was like a DONE DEED from when HE PLANNED IT.

PERHAPS, OUR NAMES ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE TIME BEGAN, BECAUSE HE IS ALREADY AT EACH CONVERSION.
PERHAPS, HE DECLARES THE END FROM THE BEGINNING, BECAUSE HE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY ALREADY IN BOTH PLACES and Everywhere in Between.

I'm not sure VCO but I am open to that possibly. Perhaps we'll know one day in eternity.

Thank you! After I was Born Again the last week of 1977, I asked a lot of Why or How Questions of the Lord, and He answered me by letting the Holy Spirit guide me in my BIBLE Study. That is the answer HE guided me too in 1978, so I cling to that and TRUST HIM Totally. Most people think I have a screw loose when I try to explain that to them. So I am very happy that you said, "I am open to that possibly." I just figure that most People cannot think outside the box, and therefore they cannot fathom the Possibility that GOD EXISTS outside of TIME CONSTRAINTS. The way I see it is GOD has NO BEGINNING and NO END, therefore HE Created TIME as we KNOW IT for us. In eternity we will know as we are KNOWN.

Why is it so difficult to believe salvation is an Act of God and His only Son, Jesus Christ who shed his blood for all who would believe in Him and have eternal, everlasting life? Oh such distortion I seen when "works" are added to God's equation for salvation.

I will give you another POSSIBILITY! WITH GOD THEIR IS NO TIME! TIME IS SOMETHING HE CREATED for CREATED BEINGS TO EXIST IN.
WHEN HE PLANS, HE SIMULTANEOUSLY EXISTS IN ALL TIME AS WE KNOW IT. HE EXISTS AS AN ETERNAL BEING, AND HE CALLS HIM SELF THEE "I AM", NOT THE "I WAS, I AM, AND I WILL BE". HE IS THE CREATOR OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT, NOT A CREATED BEING TRAVELING THROUGH TIME. YOU NEED TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX, AND THE BOX IS TIME AS WE KNOW IT.

John 8:58-59 (NIV)
58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself {perhaps even vanished}, slipping away from the temple grounds.


PERHAPS, OUR NAMES ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE TIME BEGAN, BECAUSE HE IS ALREADY AT EACH CONVERSION.
PERHAPS, HE DECLARES THE END FROM THE BEGINNING, BECAUSE HE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY ALREADY IN BOTH PLACES and Everywhere in Between.

Luke 1:37 (NIV)
37 For nothing is impossible with God."

Isaiah 46:9-10 (ESV)
9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’

I am known to ask questions often and think over things deeply and analyze. At times truly I overthink things. One person told me something to don't think just read. Later on I'm thinking," nope, not happening". Though perhaps her intent behind the words was one of don't over-think but that can be difficult to not do.

In the mystery and questions still we can trust God. I see nothing wrong with asking questions and seeking answers. And sometimes you find the answers. Sometimes you find something but it is not the answer you're looking for or it feels like you want more to the answer than what's given. Then there are the unanswerable that remain that way. When a loved one dies often the question is why. One is not usually looking for the cause of death but rather why does it have to be now? In this way? And for these why questions I believe it is often best to not try to answer these questions( which doesn't help ) but just be there for the person.