What place does works have in the life of a Christian?

Good point!

May I say though that what you describe is not the struggle of "believing in the One He has sent" but rather, in the daily struggles of life, that He will work things out the way we think He should. We all struggle with that; myself included. Even in the darkest circumstances in life, I find believing in Jesus' reality, death and resurrection isn't a struggle at all.

Sounds like sugar coated double talk to me.

I was thinking the same thing.

I am only saying that scripture tells us what God looks for when God decides to give the gift of salvation. You are adding "when he reaches a certain level of obedience". I haven't found a scripture that tells me that, have you?

It is entirely up to the Lord to decide to give salvation or not give it. However I know our creator is a loving, patient, giving God who wants us to live with Him forever, I have absolute trust in the Lord's love.

And exactly why would God withhold the gift of salvation to someone who has believed the Gospel.

Your statement above is not biblical btw..... I have never read one such situation in scripture.

When scripture tells us salvation is a gift, is scripture only double talk?

I think your fleshly reasoning is doing overtime when it decides that God is measuring a person's love and judging according to some measurement. Then using that measurement to decide on when to give salvation? What a strange God you have dreamed up.

Now that statement is the epitome of irony.

The same place that mechanical work does in the auto enthusiast's life.
Or smithing in the life of a knife enthusiast. It's just what they do. I like to compare these things to other stuff.
It would be hard to say you are a blackpowder shooting enthusiast, if you don't shoot blackpowder fire arms.
I love Jesus so I repent, and study his words, and share his words were I can, and he is one of my favorite subjects to discuss. It's not overly complicated. You seek after and do what you love.

You go on about God deciding

Yet scripture states "and the spirit and the bride say come and let him that heareth say come and let him that is thirsty come and

whosoever will let him take the water of life freely"
Rev. 20

Jesus invites all... He does not decide to invite some.

Romans 8:28

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God,to those who are called according to His purpose.


Romans 8:30

For those whom he foreknew.He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son,so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren.

Note many brethren.

Many is not exclusive it is inclusive.

Many is not all.

But all is all...

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

And does not not chose some and and deny others.

Never said that.

Nothing I've said nor the scriptures I posted that you quoted imply nor state that.

Please don't throw out red herrings.

Meant..many ........does not mean all

This is.
1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 8:30

For those whom he foreknew.He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son,so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren.

Note many brethren.[/QUOTE]


@soggykitten ....many brethren does not mean all....was my point in this verse...not sure why you posted that scripture.....I was referring to this.

And not one says it does......... but somehow "all" does not mean "all" when it is not convenient for those who argue God chooses some and not others.

I posted scripture.

Which read,so that he would be the first born among many brethren........many brethren does not mean everyone......that was my point.
Then I get God chooses some and not others.from you....

I quoted scripture....you are adding to the word of God......."Many Brethren".....not all brethren.

@soggykitten ....many brethren does not mean all....was my point in this verse...not sure why you posted that scripture.....I was referring to this.[/QUOTE]
Maybe if you read the verse I posted you'll understand the context as it applies to what you posted above.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
For those, (*the sinners in the whole world)whom he foreknew. (*because God is omniscient of course he foreknows all things) He also predestined(*Jesus figures prominently in the OT and the plan of salvation is referred to there as well) to become conformed to the image of His Son,so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren.(*other versions use the word, brothers=Greek:Adelphos. Jesus was not an only child though he was the only child in Mary and Josephs family to have God as his father.Further, Jewish culture considers all members of the nation to be kindred. All Jewish males are brothers one to the other, all Jewish females are sisters one to the other, regardless of blood lineage. Furthermore, being God is creator of all things which of course includes humanity, God is the father of all and we are all kindred one to the other. Which is why so many of Jesus teachings tell us to love our neighbor as our self. We are one family. )
ἀδελφός (adelphos)
Strong: G80

GK: G81

a brother, near kinsman or relative; one of the same nation or nature; one of equal rank and dignity; an associate, a member of the Christian community

Yes you did right after my post about Jesus inviting all

So does Jesus invite "all" or many?