The Natural Man

In spite of all the calvinists using this catch phrase over and over and over , 'the Natural man 'is not a description of an unbeliever. Paul is not introducing a non sequitor in verse 14 to tell the Corinthians about a lost man not able to understand the Gospel ( yes earlier Paul has said some see as foolish , the preaching of it ,but verse 6 of chapter 2 is not talking about this ) . Nor is the term ' Spirtual ' used solely to mean ' a person who has the Holy Spirit . It simply means a mature believer God does not refer to unbelievers as ' The natural man ' . Yes we can spin other verses to try make it sound the same . 'that which is born of the flesh is flesh ' , ' natural use ''by nature ' ect ,but these all have a context. Just like the other buzz words calvinism has lumped into one meaning also . 'election ' , predestination, Called , chosen , ordained , determined, before, beginning, dead ect . Even non Calvinists can no longer read these words without thinking 'the doctrine of such and such . People are triggered by years of being exposed to Christianese and bad theology .

Different context to 2.14 . calling it foolish and being unable to believe it are two completely different things.

to those who don't believe it does indeed seem foolish. and those same people don't believe.

I did . it was foolish until I understood it . Thats faith coming by hearing. Not Faith coming by force .

What do you suppose the "things of the spirit" are? Still, no one addressed half the scripture. We need to take one thing at a time to figure out where the differences of opinion are.

Verse 6 of 1 cor 2

natural man= unsaved.

Amen,I was once a natural woman,unsaved,...but we still have that war of the flesh going on.once we are saved....but the more one submits to the Spirit,the less that war rages.

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● Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

The Greek word translated "called" in that verse is from a word that refers to
invitations, viz: called in Matt 22:14 is polite rather than demanding, i.e.
people are at liberty to accept or refuse-- it's their decision; RSVP.

And then there's "drawing" as per John 6:44 whereby God's free will trumps
everybody else's free will.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him"

The drawing spoken of in that passage is a bit more aggressive than calling.
The Greek word primarily denotes dragging. In other words; the drawing is
forceful: for example:

● John 21:6 . . And he said unto them: Cast the net on the right side of the
ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to
draw it for the multitude of fishes.

● Acts 21:30 . . And all the city was moved, and the people ran together:
and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple.

● Jas 2:6 . . Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the
judgment seats?

The drawing below merits special attention.

● John 12:32 . . And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto
me.

Quite a few people in the last couple of thousand years have lived out their
entire lives and passed away without knowing one single thing about a Jew
named Jesus Christ and/or his cross; so then what might be meant by this
particular drawing? Well; I don't have a 100% confident answer so I'll offer a
suggestion.

Everyone must eventually be hauled into court for a face to face with God in
judgment; a task that's been delegated to Christ wherein, again, God's free
will trumps everybody else's free will.

● John 5:22 . .The Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to
the Son

● Acts 17:31 . . He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice
by the man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by
raising him from the dead.
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Not in context. The natural man ( Christian who is behaving carnally ) cannot understand the things of the Spirit . What things ? verse 6 is the answer
6¶Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfectThe mature) yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

The natural man is unsaved,they can't fellowship with God,because they are dead in sin.....once they are saved,the flesh is at war with the spirit,.

The more we submitt to God,...the old self starts to die,we are the clay,God is the potter/craftsman....he starts to work in us,from day one of salvation.

Explain in your own words, please. Just because you can quote scripture doesn't mean you understand it. That verse explains what it's not, not what it is.

Beyond those God drew to the Son before the cross ( Doesnt say they all belived that came to the Son ) and this being a terrible example of irresistible grace , because nearly everyone left Jesus who came to him . Do you have a verse after the cross where the Father draws ? Does Paul mention this in any of his crucial letters on the Gospel? Is there any verse after the cross where the Holy Spirit is drawing anyone? . We should probably go with Jesus who said when He be lifted up ,will draw ( attract ) ALL men to Him .

6¶Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
question : what wisdom is Paul speaking about that he speaks among the mature ?

I can see your new to calvinism . Which is good because hopefully you can pull back before its too late .

You're asking? What's it to you? Do you have the wisdom Paul had? Do you show the same Spirit that Paul showed? Do you have the same wisdom God has? Tell me what you believe are "the things of the Spirit."

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The Greek word translated "draw" in that verse is helkuo (hel-koo'-o)
which means: to drag; implying the use of force for example:

John 18:10
John 21:6
John 21:11
Acts 16:19
Acts 21:30
Jas 2:6

And besides, it is impossible for Jesus to attract all men seeing as how quite
a few folk have lived, and will live, their entire lives without ever once being told of a
Jew named Jesus Christ and/or his crucifixion for the sins of the world.
_

I've already given Hebrews 5 as example .
11Of whom we have MANY THINGS to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12¶For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

I've already given Hebrews 5 as example .
11Of whom we have MANY THINGS to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12¶For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Its THE THINGS beyond the basics.
How to grow. The mysteries Paul speaks of ect. Find out what these ' mysteries are .
Examples:
A "Mystery" in the New Testament sense is not something that cannot be understood, but is some plan or purpose of God that has been known to Him from the beginning, but which He has withheld from the knowledge of men until the time came for Him to reveal it. Let us examine these "Mysteries" in the order in which they are fulfilled.

I. The Mystery of the "Incarnation."

"Without controversy great is the

'Mystery of Godliness'
God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Tim. 3:16.
It is no mystery that God should reveal Himself by speaking from the Heavens, as on Mt. Sinai, but that He should take on the "Human Form" and "tabernacle" among us that was a great mystery. This He did in the person of Christ. John 1:1-14. So Jesus could say, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father." John 14:9.

II. The Mystery of the "Divine Indwelling."

In Col. 1:26-28, Paul speaks of another "Mystery" which had been hid from "Ages" and from "Generations," but was then made manifest to the saints. He calls it the Mystery of "Christ in You." This is a great mystery because it is the mystery of the "New Birth." A mystery that brought from Nicodemus the exclamation-"How can a man be born when he is old?" John 3:4. The New Birth is wonderful, but it is a wonderful fact. It is the union of the Divine Nature and ours. So that just as Jesus became one with us by His taking our human nature, so we become one with Him by taking on the Divine Nature. The mystery of this union is, that it is a union of "identity." We are just as much a part of Christ as the members of the body are a part of the body. 1 Cor. 12:12. It is for Christ to live in us. Gal. 2:20.

III. The Mystery of the "Union of Jews and Gentiles in One Body Called the Church."

In his letter to the saints at Ephesus (Eph. 3:1-11), Paul says, that God by revelation made known to him the "Mystery," which in other Ages had not been made known unto the sons of men, "That the Gentiles should be 'Fellow Heirs,' and of the 'Same Body,' and partakers of His promise in Christ by the Gospel."

It is almost impossible to overestimate the bitter "Race Hatred" which existed in Christ's day between Jew and Gentile. It was a lofty "middle wall or partition" between them. The Jews looked upon the Gentiles as "dogs," and the Gentiles despised the Jews. It was worse than the caste spirit of India. It was therefore to them a revelation that, God was going in this Dispensation to take some Jews and some Gentiles and form of them a "New Body" called the Church. In Christ all race and class distinctions disappear, and it is only in the Church that such a "Holy Brotherhood" can be found as the world is seeking.

IV. The Mystery of the "Seven Stars" and the "Seven Candlesticks".

To the Apostle John was revealed the Mystery of the "Seven Stars," and the "Seven Candlesticks." Rev. 1:12-20. He was told that the "Seven Stars" stood for the Angels or Messengers of the Seven Churches that were in Asia Minor, and the Seven Candlesticks stood for the Seven Churches themselves. The Mystery of these Candlesticks lay in the fact that the Seven Churches mentioned were representative Churches, whose history was typical of the history of the Christian Church for the past 1900 years, and the Mystery could not be understood until the present time, or until the correspondence between the character of those Churches and Church history should be revealed. For a full discussion of this see the Chapter on "The Seven Churches."

V. The Mystery of the "Kingdom of Heaven."

When the Jews rejected Christ, and thus prevented the setting up of the Kingdom, the Kingdom took on another form, the "Mystery Form." To show the character of this "Mystery Form" of the Kingdom, Jesus resorted to parables. These parables are 12 in number and are found in Matthew's Gospel only. For a full description of them see the Chapter on "The Kingdom," part two, "The Kingdom In Mystery."

VI. The Mystery of the "Translation of the Living Saints."

In 1 Cor. 15:51-55, Paul says-

"Behold, I show you a 'Mystery'; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump."
This is the greatest of all mysteries, because it reveals something that reason never dreamed of. According to reason the common lot of man is to die, but to be taken off this earth and translated to heaven without dying was never thought of until revealed to Paul. For a full description of this Mystery see the Chapter on "The Church."

VII. The Mystery of "Israel's Blindness."

Writing to the Romans (Rom. 11:25) Paul says-

"I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of This Mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that Blindness in Part is happened to Israel, until, the 'Fulness of the Gentiles' be come in."
This is not so much spiritual blindness as Judicial blindness caused by their rejection of Christ. This blindness is national and not individual, for we must not forget that the bulk of believers in the Apostles' day were Jews, and quite a few Jews have embraced Christianity since. The revelation of this Mystery to Paul was to account for what otherwise would remain a Mystery, the survival of the Jewish people as a race while scattered among the nations. See the Chapter on "The Jews."

VIII. The Mystery of "Iniquity."

In 2 Thess. 2:1-12, Paul, speaking of the "Man of Sin" or Antichrist, calls his teaching and claims the

"Mystery of Iniquity,"
which was already at work in Paul's day. The "Mystery of Godliness" is God manifest in the flesh, and the "Mystery of Iniquity" is Satan manifest in the flesh. This Mystery is fully explained in the Chapter on "The Antichrist."

IX. The Mystery of "Babylon the Great."

This Mystery is revealed in the seventeenth chapter of the Book of Revelation and is fully described in the Chapter on "Babylon the Great."

X. The Mystery of the Church As the "Bride of Christ."

This was revealed to Paul, and is disclosed in Eph. 5:22-33, under the figure of the relation of man and wife. "This is a 'Great Mystery'; but I speak concerning Christ and the Church." The first Adam had a bride, Eve; and the second, or Last Adam must have a Bride, the Church. This is a "Great Mystery" because it explains why there should be a "Parenthetical Dispensation" between the First and Second Comings of Christ, in which, by grace, a chosen people should be "called out" to form the Church, the Bride of Christ. This is fully described in the Chapter on "The Church."

XI. The Mystery of the "Restoration of All Things."

This is spoken of by Paul in his letter to the Ephesians (Eph. 1:9-10), as the

"Mystery of His Will,"
and reveals how that in the "Dispensation of the Fulness of Times," it is God's purpose to undo all that sin has done, and restore "All Things" as they were before the "Rebellion of Satan" and the "Fall of Man." How this is to be done is described in the Chapter on the "Renovation of the Earth."