Assurance of salvation

I believe if God intended for it to be a temporal punishment, he could have blinded them, or some other thing.for a couple months?

Immediately after they spoke, they gave up the ghost?

It's a mystery indeed, I see a judgement for lying to God, and liars go to the lake not filled with cool water.

Thanks for the response, I'm out

I always wonder how some can say "most" as a statement. Now saying the people I have talked to MOST of them give John 3 16/Rom 10 9-10 Rev 3 20 as to why they are saved.. I can say is true. Then the doctrines of man come into play about always saved or you can lose your salvation etc. Yet it keeps going. We then hear.. how we all care what the bible only says not some *ism. Yet some of these bible only (which I agree YES) posts can also fit some *ism group

Most, some, all, few ect. This just gets silly. There are over 7 billion people in the world and what something like 29+ million Churches and then believers in Jesus Christ will say "most, all, some, few" and not blink a eye. For me how is that lol not lying? My point is some talk about dying and not repenting. We do know that if God tells us to do something and we don't equals sin right? Not sure how far "I didn't believe that" will take you with God but.. you can try.

The the predestination. Awesome that even Christ presented a choice to His believers. The call to repentance is universal. Limiting this call to a predetermined elect seem to conflict with many scriptures. I have these books that brake down Hebrew Greek. And with Rom 8 here.. they explain all the views on this verse. This is one of those verses you just can't simple speak and.. clear huh! haha.

We know God is GOD because He is the only one that tells you whats coming. That does not mean everything that happens He did. Remember no one here can save you/me. Not sure how Calvin could read the word tell you what he believed is false. Yet others can read the same and state something different is the real truth. Not saying Calvin was right or wrong or any other.

In this post is why I always pray "Father forgive me for all the things I did that I don't remember and hold them not to my charge/account in Jesus name". Because I know I am sure I thought something said something didn't pray when He asked or just praying always and praying about all things as we are told to. In the end all we will see is EVERYONE fallen before Him and HE alone is standing. He alone is righteous and true. Can't wait

Got under my skin, and the verse below came to mind, I believe it directly applies to Ananias, with Sapphira, from the mouth of God Almighty, Jesus Christ

Luke 12:10KJV
10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Do you believe one specific group holds this testimony?

Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Mormons, Lutheran's, Baptist, Other?

Hi Truth7t7, I don't believe that lying ~to~ the HS is quite the same thing as intentionally lying ~about~ the HS (speaking against Him/blasphemy against Him, etc.). We should all be thankful that the unpardonable sin has been so narrowly & precisely defined for us (though many still try to expand its definition anyway ), and lying, even to the HS, is not it .. as lying is a sin which can be forgiven.

Finally, I'm not arguing about the fate of Ananias and Sapphire in an attempt to change anyone's mind, I'm just pointing out what I've come to understand/believe about them and why (realizing that I could be wrong, because we simply do not have enough information about them).

~Deut

We should all see the issue when we have a ' confession' that some are posting as a response . We would all have an issue with this if we were talking to a Jehovah witness and they kept responding with their magazine articles or they just showed you there statement of their beliefs from the watchtower. Why have we accepted this in Christianity as if its not a problem.?

What kind of gobbledygook is that? You have claimed that Calvinists do not believe in assurance of salvation. The Westminster Confession TOTALLY REFUTES that. Which means that you do not have a leg to stand on.

And to bring the Watchtower into this discussion simply adds insult to injury. Clearly I am not a Calvinist. By the same token I will not misrepresent what they teach. Also a "Confession of Faith" is simply a Statement of Faith. All churches need a statement of faith, and Reformed and Presbyterian churches have this Statement of Faith.

Yes another glaring gaff in Calvinism . God demands , commands and calls for man to repent and believe ,to obey the Gospel . But withholds the very means for some to be able to do so . In any other system this blunder would be exposed and the whole thing rejected upon first hearing as nonsense . But here we are today. Men parroting other men who are parroting other men ,all the way back to Augustine.

You don't have to be a calvinist to have absorbed calvnistic presups . Its permeated its way not just into reformed traditions . Its seaped into most traditions unwittingly.
I see a lot of folks have given up their sense making to a system .

Sure someone can point to a confession and ' say ' , " see we believe in assurance of salvation ,it says in paragraph such and such ,that we do "
But my point is more about how can they have assurance in reality according to the logical conclusion of the system . I think the Op shows they cannot. Thats my point .

As an aside, similarly Calvinists do this with the problem of ' is God the Author of sin ' . The response is " no hes not ,look in this confession ,it says ' God is not the Author of sin ' " . Ok that cleared that up then .

First of all, please dial it down on the gobbledygook. Please be respectful.

Also, if you're not part of a certain group (example Calvinist) how can you say what they believe or don't believe? Besides, even within a group not everyone believes the entire doctrine of their own group down to the letter as you find the supposed doctrine spelled out on some website or in some book or whatever. There were even different ideas and beliefs among the early Christians:

Acts 15:1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.

We all have different beliefs. Some heavier than others. There is no need to bring up the entire doctrine of any certain group. If you want to discuss a certain topic, it can be done in a more general sense that can benefit everyone.

Yeah....um...no. Don't we need to go by what is in the Bible?

I'll await to hear what your answer to what are we predestined for ?,from what the bible says please ?

Only a saved person can persevere.

I think this makes my point, if I understand you. But why do you HAVE to persevere ? I understand the 'no true Scotsmen fallacy ' all good godly Christian s will do good and Godly things and those that don't are not real christians ,otherwise they would do good godly things. So as long as I do good Godly things I can be assured I'm Godly ,therefore once this changes I must not be good and Godly . Therefore proving I wasn't good and Godly from the beginning . Darn it ! I thought I was ' elect '. Hey ho , what can you do .let's eat ,drink tomorrow we die .

I don't know why you would need to add anything to what I said. You obviously don't understand.

Only a saved person perseveres.

This doesn't have ANYTHING to do with performance. I do good things. I do not so good things.

God is in charge of Salvation from start to finish. God doesn't start things that He doesn't finish.


I don't need to try and prove that God has saved me by doing some thing that is defined by YOU. I KNOW God has Saved me. I KNOW that He is the One who will Keep me in His Hands.

Even if I tried to do something to prove to you or myself that I am saved it would be a farce. Only God can prove to someone if they are Saved.



Like I said earlier, though, Not sure if you could apply this to all Calvinists. I'm different and I depart from some of their stuff.

If you'd asked me why do I have to persevere ? . I would answer I dont need to , Because My persevering has no bearing on me being glorified.

If your will and understanding is what caused your salvation to begin with then how is it possible that your will and understanding can't mess it up?

My will and and understanding was not the cause of my salvation . See I think i see the issue again . You've been sold a bill of faulty goods . Some logical problems with what your saying . Do you understand cause and effect? salvation is God giving someone a Gift . And to recieve the gift GOD is pleased to give the gift to anyone Who believes . Faith is the access to the grace in which we stand .