Chosen by God - A study in Election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
So, God intended some to go to hell and yet, hell was never intended for a man to go there. Hmmmmmm...something doesn’t add up.
That the one verse says hell was prepared for fallen Angel's does not exclude unsaved persons from going there.
In your world you seem to have a God who was surprised by mans unbelief and had to scramble to figure out what to do.
No wonder you cannot find truth.
 
Of course context ,and any surrounding verses are incidental to calvinism .
As long as you intend not to learn truth you will succeed in remaining ignorant of it.
You try and resist anything offered.
So you will go on in your errors.
Virtually every single post you offer shows a defective understanding of the attributes of God.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,854
8,328
113
Ideally that should be the case. But I have yet to see a Calvinist properly expound on Romans 10, and then conclude that Calvinism is spiritual nonsense.

So why don't you take up Romans 10 vs TULIP and show us which is true?
I am not propounding Calvinism particularly. Furthermore I am not a Calvinist per se.
I am just laying out what the Scripture says.

Can you do us a favor? Can you post a number of Scriptures that indicate that the free will of men reigns supreme as it pertains to salvation?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,854
8,328
113
Romans 11.
25¶For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28¶As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have MERCY upon ALL
Can you do us a favor? Can you post a number of Scriptures that indicate that the free will of men reigns supreme as it pertains to salvation?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
EleventhHour,

[Also can you please explain why God only chooses to quicken some when He could quicken all?]

God could not save all. He never intended to.
Why?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
As long as you intend not to learn truth you will succeed in remaining ignorant of it.
You try and resist anything offered.
So you will go on in your errors.
Virtually every single post you offer shows a defective understanding of the attributes of God.
I keep noticing im being personally attacked whilst I'm only attacking the ridiculous, unbiblical, anti Christian system aka Calvinism , not people .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Can you do us a favor? Can you post a number of Scriptures that indicate that the free will of men reigns supreme as it pertains to salvation?
I don't start with the philosophy of ' freewill '
I start with:
The Bible Comes from God.

2. The Bible is true.

3. The central idea of Christianity is the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Christ on the Authority of Scripture.

The Bible is to be approached and interpreted inductively.

Observe what the text says.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
I keep noticing im being personally attacked whilst I'm only attacking the ridiculous, unbiblical, anti Christian system aka Calvinism , not people .
So obviously unbiblical ... but they run out of defenses so it tends to go that way.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
113
That the one verse says hell was prepared for fallen Angel's does not exclude unsaved persons from going there.
In your world you seem to have a God who was surprised by mans unbelief and had to scramble to figure out what to do.
No wonder you cannot find truth.
Yes, for the devil and his angels. No man was ever intended to go there. If a man ends up in hell, it would be by his own choice not some ordination of God. God never intended man to end up in hell.

Nice try on the example. I'm not a fatalist and neither is God.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
113
Can you do us a favor? Can you post a number of Scriptures that indicate that the free will of men reigns supreme as it pertains to salvation?
Reigns supreme? Another feeble attempt...

What about the dozens and dozens of verses stating that man must believe? The word believe indicates choice.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,854
8,328
113
I don't start with the philosophy of ' freewill '
I start with:
The Bible Comes from God.

2. The Bible is true.

3. The central idea of Christianity is the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Christ on the Authority of Scripture.

The Bible is to be approached and interpreted inductively.

Observe what the text says.
It is not philosophy to state that the will of God reigns supreme. It is axiomatic.

If it pleases you and if you have time can you please quote as many Scriptures as you can find pertaining to the supremacy the will of man as it pertains to salvation. I am trusting in your intercession so that the board will have the benefit of a balanced view of this important topic.

Again........a selection of Scriptures that point to the supremacy of the will of man as it pertains to salvation.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
113
It is not philosophy to state that the will of God reigns supreme. It is axiomatic.

If it pleases you and if you have time can you please quote as many Scriptures as you can find pertaining to the supremacy the will of man as it pertains to salvation. I am trusting in your intercession so that the board will have the benefit of a balanced view of this important topic.

Again........a selection of Scriptures that point to the supremacy of the will of man as it pertains to salvation.
Does the will of God always occur?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
It is not philosophy to state that the will of God reigns supreme. It is axiomatic.

If it pleases you and if you have time can you please quote as many Scriptures as you can find pertaining to the supremacy the will of man as it pertains to salvation. I am trusting in your intercession so that the board will have the benefit of a balanced view of this important topic.

Again........a selection of Scriptures that point to the supremacy of the will of man as it pertains to salvation.
like I said, I try stick to the bible and try not caught up in philosophy. i have no interest in the free will philosophy debate . Just on what the bible says .
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,854
8,328
113
Yes we see this with Paul ( in time ) where it was Gods will for Paul to go to a place and that finally was pris

its Gods will that we SHOULD walk in good works ( Eph 2 ,10 ) but clearly not all believers DO .But its says He ordained BEFORE that we should walk in them .
In my opinion ALL believers do walk in good works. Some more some less. Some bear tremendous fruit some...... a few shriveled grapes. The children of wrath however do no good works, They are only capable in their fallenessness of doing bad good works not good good works (works that glorify God). The unsaved are doing the equivalent to pagans burning sacrifices for their idols.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
In my opinion ALL believers do walk in good works. Some more some less. Some bear tremendous fruit some...... a few shriveled grapes. The children of wrath however do no good works, They are only capable in their fallenessness of doing bad good works not good good works (works that glorify God). The unsaved are doing the equivalent to pagans burning sacrifices for their idols.
So God had determined the 'shriveled grapes 'for his Glory ?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,854
8,328
113
Does the will of God always occur?
Yes. Always. When God wants to accomplish His purposes they never fail. No need for me to quote Scripture everyone knows them. I don't think anyone wants to argue that point.

The problem for unbelievers is that God can limit his Will, His power, His grace. And He has every right to do this also. Example: God can simply withhold his lovingkindness and bring no rain.

Rom 9:15
For He says to Moses: "I will show mercy to whom I may show mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I may have compassion."
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,854
8,328
113
like I said, I try stick to the bible and try not caught up in philosophy. i have no interest in the free will philosophy debate . Just on what the bible says .
Sorry, but that's not a defense of your position. That is just an exit strategy.

Anyone else care to quote Scripture that indicates the supremacy of man's will as it pertains to salvation?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,854
8,328
113
So God had determined the 'shriveled grapes 'for his Glory ?
Evidently. Not all believers have the same degree of glory and reward in the heavenly realm. Nor are all of the angels created with the same glory. Some have great power and glory, some less.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Sorry, but that's not a defense of your position. That is just an exit strategy.

Anyone else care to quote Scripture that indicates the supremacy of man's will as it pertains to salvation?
I don't think the cults argue this .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Evidently. Not all believers have the same degree of glory and reward in the heavenly realm. Nor are all of the angels created with the same glory. Some have great power and glory, some less.
That makes sense in a non deterministic system .
 
Status
Not open for further replies.