Sabbath Obligation?

When you quote scripture telling us to "love not the world", do you mean that you a a ghostic who says that all things of the world are evil only the spiritual has value? That you believe in the "do not touch, do not taste, do not handle" that Paul warns against accepting if you accept Christ?

Read my last post that was posted seconds before yours. I am not a "ghostic" as you put it.

Here I'll quote it for you:

"
You didn't answer my question about what your definition of a feast is. Can you?

Paul in Col 2:16 is telling us that we should not let anyone judge us concerning the ordinances (as mention 2 verses earlier) of the Law which dictated which animals were clean and not clean, feasts they were to keep (ex. Feast of Unleavened Bread) and the weekly Sabbath and any of the "High-Sabbaths" such as occur on the first and last days of Feast of Unleavened Bread.

There is nothing in these verses that tell us we are to live "joyfully, feasting" as you put in, which to me sounds like you are advocating the pleasing of the carnal mind and flesh.

Jude 1:23 KJB "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

I am not saying that a good meal is not allowed on occasion. For it is as God tells us.
But everything with temperance and according to God's will.

Philippians 3:18-20 KJB "
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:" "

btw this is not at you specifically, just your scripture reference is relevant it seems.




Ok, this issue is very near and dear to me and has been laid on my heart lately rather strongly (in the last year)...

Pretty intriguing to me that you mention "no trading" "no marketing" "remaining in place"



I'm not going to say either yea or nay on this particular issue "at present" only that I was not aware of these verses. I may have read them at some point but my eyes were not open to them if that makes sense. What's interesting to me is that I felt like going shopping or selling was somehow inappropriate without explicitly being aware that this was scriptural. I felt a little guilty when I was bored and just wanted to get on Ebay, Craigslist, or go thrift shopping. I was aware of the verses about "My own pleasure" on the sabbath and so just waited until sunday to do so because of this...but again interesting.

I was actually quite frustrated with this site at one point because I didn't know the fire commandment and often I consider fire a holy sacrament...where I spend time with the Lord meditating and just having some activity to me that isn't sin in any way I can conceive. Potentially by just the luxury and waste of resources (wood and heat) it could be sinful but it was something along the lines of Solomon (I think) offering tons of burnt offerings. Making the Lord a bonfire was a pretty cool thing for me and it gave me mental release somehow.

Come to find out the fire rule for the sabbath...but then, when I was aware...the sabbath became borderline legalistic for me because I refused to have a fire but it was that day specifically that I kept wanting to. So I got a bit confused.



I will say that a LOT of my life since I was a child the Sabbath commandment (keep it holy) would always come to my mind full force when I was struggling with something (usually lustful thoughts) just that phrase would go through my mind and somehow everything felt worse. I knew NOTHING of being a judaizer or legalism at the time (11-17 years old) It was just different and I'm not sure why.



Mostly I am posting that because it is consistently on my heart that there is something here. Perhaps it isn't for everyone nor a "command" per se owing to the law of liberty, but the reverse is also true in regard to "letting no man judge you in respect to..."

I can't control what is laid on my heart. There are tons of things I've read in the Old Testament that encouraged me tremendously when I felt a conviction that other people around me didn't have (in church).

I won't get into what each of these are but I always felt unclean about certain things and felt "cut off" until I showered and slept and then that's exactly how it was done in Israel. Just because you are unclean doesn't mean it's sin exactly...just something. I'm not entirely sure precisely what it means. I don't think a female is sinning because she has her period (that would be ridiculous) but she is unclean according to the OT.

This is stuff that's just been a part of me since I was very young. No one taught it to me...I'm pretty sure it's the Lord but based off all this "living under the law" stuff, as well as judaizers, legalism, and pharisaical nonsense that has been discussed it causes me a bit of consternation.



The most interesting thing about a lot of the stuff is I follow a code in my heart that I think is the Lord and then when it's directly stated in scripture...well...what do you do with that?


I think if someone doesn't see how viewing the shadow of the things of the past is useful for the present, then perhaps they should ask themselves what Jesus being Lord of the Sabbath means. None of it is clear to me 100%, only that there a lot of things that the NT doesn't declare as sin and when I was younger (and even in later life) when I have a strong desire to do something and feel this massive amount of energy to almost "get me to do it" I start to go through a process. I end up REALLY wanting to, but it's almost like I can't...and then finally (this is different at different times) in a fit of frustration I play Bible roulette (where you open randomly) and it's right there what I'm going through.

Ah yes, but it's "only" the Old testament. I'm in the new covenant...it's not sin for me anymore! I just call bull on that personally. I won't get too personal or explicit with some of the stuff I've been tempted with but a mild one to a lot of people would be cross dressing and hey guess what? It's not talked about in the NT. Sure it's prevalent in a lot of our culture as a sort of joke but err...the Lord was quite specific about it in the Old testament. Wonder why that was.

Wonder why people would think it strange if their pastor started wearing dresses to church?

I get that you could use scriptures about remaining above reproach and avoiding the appearance of evil...but there's no need for me when it's already stated in plain type in scripture.



I post all this because I randomly got on the website and this type of thing does burden me. I don't understand why some are so apt to believe that nothing in the OT applies and are quick to say that the law has been abolished...even if they don't say that directly (because it is unscriptural) indirectly they clearly do to me but I can't tell if this is what they "really" mean because I'm not God. It could be that they are follow their own convictions

but then...why the disparity?


Discussion is helpful, I don't think one should live under the law to be certain. There have been a couple of times when I was being exceptionally contentious with myself (which I think is probably the Lord too) and it was like "fine, bear the full weight, see how it goes..." and I'll just say I have no desire to live like what those times are like. It is excruciating and black.

So yeah, I've felt a lot concerning this, I think the Lord cares but only as he leads you and I think if we focus on the two greatest commandments, the other stuff will fall into place uniquely (work out your own salvation). It could be that like the seven churches in Revelation, we have different missions/convictions for different ministry, I have no idea. I only know that I cannot escape the law or cut it off from me (Romans 7) and have to use it to correct and chastise my own flesh and there is a struggle between my flesh and my spirit. Most times I'm looking at the Lord in all this and that's all right now that I can do.


Major on the majors minor on the minors?

It is hard for us to discuss scripture because from your former post I know you deny that the Lord tells you to celebrate His plan for our salvation with feasts God planned for us. You read Jeremiah 31:31-34 as saying God cancelled these feasts. I am as sure they are not cancelled as you are sure they are cancelled. Discussing it further is only spinning our wheels.

Paul does not say we aren't to let anyone judge us concerning ordinances. He warns about philosophy, and elemental forces of the world instead of on Christ who is one with the Father. The feasts are not of this world but given to us by God and Christ is God. At the last supper, a Passover celebration, Christ said this is my body and my blood, do this in remembrance of me. You, and almost all churches has changed the "this" in do this to the communion service rather than what Christ was doing at the time, He was honoring the Passover feast.

We are to obey God, not man and fleshly things, it is true, but the fruits of the spirit include joy. That is a physical thing, we are to feast and celebrate.

The issue was to whether Christians should keep the Sabbath or not, has been something that has been personally bothering me for a long time.

I have had read many views for both for and against keeping the Sabbath.

The question that I have is the following:
In Mark 2:28 it says Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.
And Jesus is our example in all things and since he kept the Sabbath, does it mean that we should automatically keep it because we are his followers?

Reading when the Sabbath of the Lord was given as gift we know it is forever on the seventh day, unlike other Sabbaths established in the time of the Old Testament
It is a gift to all who will receive it directly from our Father to share one day of the week with Him to rest.
Look upon it as a gift, or a law if you wish but keep in mind our Lord, Jesus-Yeshua, points out that no law is valid if it does not contain justice, mercy and faith. So with that latter in mind it is never to be a burden but a joy..

If you study the scripture, the early church kept the 7th day sabbath.

It was in 321AD, when Roman Emperor mandated (Sunday) as a day of worship, it's historically a pagan (Sun Worshippers) venerated day.

Just as Easter and Christmas are pagan days of worship in Fertility rites and Winter Solstice rituals.

In the past 20-30 years the (Church) has tried to christianize (Halloween/Samhain)
With renaming it (Harvest Festival) with candies and treats for the kiddies in celebration?

Yes the so called (Church) has tried desperately to christianize pagan times and days.

Using that logic, are we to keep Kosher laws, Passover, Sukkot, Hanukkah and worship in the temple? Jesus kept Kosher laws, He kept the Passover, Sukkot, Hanukkah, and worshipped in the temple. Are we to follow everything Jesus did under the law? Galatians 4:4-5 says that Jesus lived under the law to redeem us from the law. But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

In regards to Mark 2:27-28, "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, so the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." This statement was in response to the accusation by the Pharisees that His disciples were breaking the law regarding resting on the Sabbath while going through some fields and plucking heads of grain (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-28; Luke 6:1-5).

Jesus responded by giving an example from the Old Testament that David was once in need of food and was given consecrated bread that was only lawful for the priests to eat (1 Samuel 21:1-6). The bread had served a practical need for David and his followers, just as with Jesus and His disciples, the grain served a practical need. David and his men were not acting sinfully in eating the showbread, and neither were Jesus’ disciples acting sinfully in plucking heads of grain on the Sabbath. Jesus concludes, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." Jesus' response to the accusing Pharisees contains some important teachings.

The Sabbath was intended to help people, not burden them. In contrast with the grueling daily work as slaves in Egypt, the Israelites were commanded to take a day of rest each week under the Mosaic law. The Pharisees had turned the Sabbath into a burden, adding restrictions beyond what God’s law said. The disciples had not broken God’s law; they had only violated the Pharisees’ legalistic, interpretation of the law. Jesus reminded the Pharisees of the original intent of the Sabbath rest.

Also keep in mind that the Sabbath was not given to all the nations. It was given to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - "Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses." *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.*

The Word of God makes it clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: "The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested." (Exodus 31:16-17)

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day." (Deuteronomy 5:15).

Fact: The early church worshipped on the 7th day sabbath.

Fact: Pagan Roman Emperor Constantine in 321AD mandated (Sunday) as a holy day of worship, that mixed paganism into a false Christianity, the beginning of the Roman Catholic State Church.

Fact: Roman Emperor Constantine donated the land (Vatican City), and built St Peters Basilica what is now the Roman Catholic Church.

Constantine declares dies Solis Invicti (“Invincible Sun-day”) to be the day of rest throughout the Roman Empire

Sol Invictus (“Unconquered Sun”) was the official sun god of the later Roman Empire and a patron of soldiers. In 274 the Roman emperor Aurelian made it an official cult alongside the traditional Roman cults. Statuettes of Sol Invictus, carried by the standard-bearers, appear in three places in reliefs on the Arch of Constantine, a triumphal arch in Rome. Emperor Constantine’s official coinage continues to bear images of Sol until 325.
In early days Christians were first, and horribly, targeted for persecution. In year 312 Roman Emperor Constantine got converted to Christianity. He immediately declared that Christians and pagans should be allowed to worship freely, and restored property confiscated during persecutions and other lost privileges to the Christians. He decreed (March 7, 321) dies Solis—day of the sun, “Sunday”—as the Roman day of rest: On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.

Are you sure that you have ALL of your facts straight?

https://www.exadventist.com/portals/0/articles/Why do Christians Worship on Sunday.pdf

One thing I have noticed is the word rest was never meant to be a "time senititive" word. Making it into a time sensitive word destroys the foundation of the the word "rest" . Rest is not seventh day. The rest was established on the seventh day as a continue rest. God having finished all the work until the end of time .But again the word itself is not time sensitive. When we try and establish a day or time period we lose the ongoing rest.

The rest is considered "Today" 24 hours or any time we hear his voice working in us moving us to both will and do his good pleasure.

This works when we do mix the the things not seen the eternal rest with the temporal labor at hand .Being yoked with Christ our daily burden is made lighter . If faith believing God is working to give us rest is not mixed then according to Hebrew 4: 1-2 there is no good news called the gospel. A persons heart remains hard .They deny it is God working in the or like Job 23 below says he preforms that which is his will. He will not share the work of his rest with our corrupted flesh and blood.

We must give that glory to Him who works in us .

According to Philippians 2 :13 -14 some do harden their hearts and murmur. and in effect deny the rest they could of had if they offered it toward his name. Job gives us some understanding

Job23:12-16 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performed the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him. Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:

The phrase mixing faith in Hebrews 4 is acknowledging it is God who does make our hearts soft .Denying it is him working in us dissolves the rest we could of had.

The ceremonial fast is shadow of the daily continue fast. One day set aside as joyful burden or labor of love when a person can perform that kind of fast spoken of as a parable in Isaiah 58 .

A time when a person can share their goods mixing it with faith as we rest in a hope that Christ will work to give other rest (the gospel )

Note... (Green in parenthesis) gospel metaphors used in the parable below.

Isiah 58:6-8 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward

No glory to be heard on high . . no rest

The first work of God working in mankind in that parable. . to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens.

It is supported by the portion of scripture. When Jesus cast out demons that the disciples could not. This helps understand how faith as a work accompanied with the word of God prayer produced the will of God .

When men try to make it into a works of righteousness of their own as a day for relaxation . How could that loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens of other .it must be accompanied with a labor of love loving the whole person Not just a bible verse with nothing else to share with it. Or the other way around offer food and clothing but not gospel (prayer) .Both are needed to work as one rest.

We will disagree, I don't follow 7th Day Adventism Or Ellen G. White

However the early church was established on the 7th day sabbath a fact

(Sunday) the first day of the week, was established by Roman Emperor Constantine in 321AD as shown in my previous post.

(The Church Was Established On The Sabbath) Preaching The Word

Acts 13:42-49KJV
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

that's malarkey oft repeated that should not be repeated at all by anyone who loves the truth. it's patently false.

Constantine didn't 'change' anything -- Christians were celebrating the rising of the LORD on the 8th day from the beginning.

here's a bit of evidence --


this epistle is apocryphal, to be sure, but it was written before 100AD
just a tiny bit of research on your part would reveal lots and lots of other sources from the early church fathers, BEFORE 300AD, establishing firmly that the eighth day was honored waaaaaay before this supposed Roman 'conspiracy'

the 8th day is the day the LORD rose. not the 7th.
it is not the sabbath day, but the day He stood up from His rest.

look: Jesus Himself says that the 8th day supersedes the sabbath, according to the law

we celebrate Him on the 8th day because He is one greater than the sabbath, greater than the temple -- greater than all things.
Sunday is not 'Christian sabbath' -- that's stupid.

You don't have your facts straight and your arguments align with 7th Day Adventism. Paul's work here was evangelism. Notice that these were "unbelievers" in Christ before Paul preached to them. Yes they believed in the Jewish system, but the Bible says in Acts 14:1, that they BECAME believers proving Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They were not pagan Greeks but Greeks who practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were certainly were not Christians. Acts 13:43 "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God."

Acts 14:1 "In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks."

Acts 17:4 "And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

Acts 18:4 "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."

on the 8th day -- the day of circumcision, the day of cleansing, of consecration.
and from the beginning also, believers rose up early in the morning on the 8th day -- as Christ Himself did -- and sang His praise at the rising of the sun, as He Himself rises in our hearts.

it doesn't matter one whit what supposed god the Romans named their days after. @Truth7t7 you think so-called Saturn-day is any different? the pagans named every day after some false god or another. it's meaningless.

God Himself, who created the Sun, who makes it to rise from the horizon every morning, provided it as a sign and a symbol for us. Christians worshiping the risen Light of the World at the rising of the sun on the 8th day, the day of a new beginning, the day He Himself rose, are not worshiping a pagan deity, neither are they under bondage to Moses, to Rome, or to anyone else: we are free, made free by the Son Himself.

I read somewhere that the French attempted to remove any day of rest from the work week. It was a total failure. Even the farm animals stopped producing and it devastated the workforce. Seems like the French are still feeing the effects of this folly.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

All of this sounds very intellectual, but our Father gave us this day as a gift symbolic of the actual eternal rest we will all have with him.

if you read the context of this saying in Mark 2, you'll notice that His disciples were being accused of breaking the sabbath. He does not argue that they are not in fact His argument is to bring up examples in scripture of people breaking the law and still being considered righteous in what they do: David eating the shewbread, which was unlawful, and the priests 'desecrating the sabbath' ((Christ's words, not mine)) every sabbath by working in the temple, as the law commanded them to.

something to think about. Paul tells us in Romans that we ought to be convinced in our own mind, and that whether we regard a day or do not, we do so to the Lord. he tells us in Colossians not to allow anyone to judge you over keeping days or not, just like no one should allow themselves to be judged over eating or drinking, or refraining from eating or drinking.

i will not speak against sabbath observance, neither will i command anyone to do so. i will however oppose anyone who tries to condemn Christians over the issue: because this is what the scripture says, and this is what Jesus did in Mark 2 / Matthew 12.

again, when Jesus says He is the Lord of the sabbath, He does not say His disciples are not breaking it -- that is an extremely important point! He says He is greater than it, He says it was made for us, not us for it, and He replies with examples of righteous acts that are superficially contrary to the letter of the law!