K
kaylagrl
Guest
The Mod took his spoon away and spanked him with it.
I sure don't envy the mods job. But they sure are quick about it. He hardly got to stir at all.
Women cannot have authority in the congregation.
- Thread starter JohnPost1
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I sure don't envy the mods job. But they sure are quick about it. He hardly got to stir at all.
All this has been discussed so very many times..............there is little sense in arguing points where one person believes Paul is issuing Commandments from God, and the other realizes Paul is doing his best to instruct peoples who have lived under pagan idolatry for years and years, in an attempt to redirect their worship to God.
Corinth was not the only place where these problems existed.
It is recorded in the Bible because these are the Epistles of the Apostle Paul, and worthy of being so. Again, while those that do not understand, will not understand, Paul.....
WROTE IN TWO SEPARATE but DISTINCT STYLES.............
THUS SAYETH THE LORD:
and
It would be better that..............I would rather that
One speaks of Commandments from God
the other speaks of the Apostles advice to the Congregations on how best to live a Christian life.
Why not do some study of your own...........especially Historical Records? "Search" Biblical Corinth and read about what life was like then when Paul came to establish the Church there. Learn of what effect the Temple of a Thousand Prostitutes had on the men and the women, and ALL the pagan rituals the peoples there were engaged in on a daily basis.
It seems to me that people accept the word of God so long it fits in their View. Verses which dont fits will be ignored ore explained away.
I surely agree with this, given the incorrect interpretations of Scripture that some Denominations labor under and teach the traditions of men for the Gospel of Christ.
And AGAIN........
Those who see Scripture through "earthly" eyes/heart" believe one way
Those who see Scripture through "spiritual" eyes/heart believe another way
Both are saved, but ONE is sanctified.........having received the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Given that there are many in the Church professing Christianity that DO NOT even believe in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, OR the Holy Trinity, it is no wonder the differing beliefs surface here on CC, and throughout the world. There are those who believe "the Comforter" promised is the written Word, the Bible, and IT was given upon Christ's return to the Throne. So many Denominational/Church Group beliefs differing will always lead to drastic differences in Scripture interpretation.
All one has to do is spend a day or two here in the BDF to know how true this is.
Has someone yet posted where "God commanded women to conduct themselves in the church/life" in such ways?
The excuse "well, Paul gave such instructions/advice" won't equate to a COMMANDMENT FROM GOD.
Any who believe that had better revisit Paul's thoughts concerning men and women and marriage...........
Can ANYONE doubt that GOD intended for men and women to live as husband and wife and BECOME ONE FLESH? How then did the Apostle "instruct/advise" differently? Why would he? Understand this, and one is a long way closer to understanding HOW the Apostle wrote his Epistles AND WHY.
The excuse "well, Paul gave such instructions/advice" won't equate to a COMMANDMENT FROM GOD.
Any who believe that had better revisit Paul's thoughts concerning men and women and marriage...........
Can ANYONE doubt that GOD intended for men and women to live as husband and wife and BECOME ONE FLESH? How then did the Apostle "instruct/advise" differently? Why would he? Understand this, and one is a long way closer to understanding HOW the Apostle wrote his Epistles AND WHY.
If anyone believes what Jesus says in John he didn't want an authority structure at all
So now women are able to claim the false office than men falsely claim?
the only reason these offices came about was because of the wild differences of opinions made it necessary to preserve some kind of order, but it was never what Jesus originally commanded. So now people argue about the gender of those able to fulfill a role Jesus never wanted in the first place! Give me a break lol
So now women are able to claim the false office than men falsely claim?
the only reason these offices came about was because of the wild differences of opinions made it necessary to preserve some kind of order, but it was never what Jesus originally commanded. So now people argue about the gender of those able to fulfill a role Jesus never wanted in the first place! Give me a break lol
You are just making stuff up and you think it is not a big deal to do so but you need to quit it. God is not at all pleased with you saying He divorced Israel. If you knew the scriptures you would know that God has already asked through Isaiah "where is the writing of divorcement?" to Israel when they were in Babylon and he was stirring them awake to come out and restore Jerusalem. They thought that God had put them away then, but he reminds them of his covenant and even though he disciplines them, for his own name sake he is going to restore them. Even now God is not finished with Israel and has not divorced them. SO...SHUT YO MOUTH!!!
LOL Cute
I would un-Zip open my mouth and offer.
He gave it to them. Its called the letter of the law. They played the harlot after the faithless pagan foundation (out of sight out of mind kill all that do not agree ) those who seek after the things seen called signs as lying wonders . They had no interest in obeying the commandments .But were those who went backward slain in the spirit .Those who made noises with their mouth but offered no understanding .They are spoken of in Isaiah 28 and 1 Corinthians 14 .
Rather than obeing sola scriptura they develpoed a law of the fathers .Same law Catholics must follow after. The performed whatsoever their own mouth as oral traditions of men declared (false prophecy) . They had the bill of divorcement (You shall not, or you shall obey shall called the word of God . Not a separate writing .
Why are you trying to make it about the flesh as if all Israel backslid?
Jeremiah 3:And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Seeing all Israel is not born again Israel and a inward Jew (born again of the Spirit of Christ ) is not a outward Jew (natural unconverted mankind ) you have some studying to do .
It seems you are still trying to make it all about the things seen as if Jewish flesh had more of a value in the end of the matter that gentile flesh. God is simply no respecter of persons corrupted flesh .He is not served by corrupted human hands. We neither wrestle against flesh and blood of any nation or is salvation supported by it.
Flesh and blood the temporal what the eyes see will not enter the new order .
Jesus said of His own corrupted flesh and blood it profits for zero, nothing, nada
God does not save whole nations or tribes or families. He does not pit the Jews up against the gentiles. Its all about personal relationships as two walking together. In agreement to one. Christ in us no of us.
Study the meaning of words rather than searching after signs and wonders as if the kingdom did come by observation.
Learn what it mean to walk by faith (the unseen)
Define the use of the word Israel using the scriptures and explain why he renamed his bride Christian in Acts, previously calling her Israel? Was Christian ( residents of the City of Christ) named after her husband Christ a more befitting name for the bride of all nations called mankind .
One bride, one gospel . One God who is not a man
Yes, I agree with your 2und Part of your Post.
In concern to the woman matter I ganz agree with you.
1. Cor. Is not the only Part of the NT who speaks about it.
And you cant tell me that Paul is only saying that the Corinthian woman has to keep keep silent. He sayed not the woman in your church. He sayed the woman in the churches.
Well, if you see it timely and culurel limeted to the church of Corinth then is this your personell View. In my understanding, and this may be wrong, the bible is clear in what saying about teaching and authority from woman about man.
But I also know, that the majority sees it different. Here in germany you will be stoned from the majority of Christians if you believe this.
And I also recognize that this matter will controvers discussed till the Lord will come.
I believe he will not judge me for follow his word. Even if it is not Mainstream.
Thanks for the reply.
Historically accurate and spiritual accurate. Using the things seen the temporal corrupted to give us the unseen eternal understanding of the mysteries hid from natural unconverted mankind.
I think parables as prophecy are designed to teach how how to walk by the faith of Christ that can work in us, with us to both will and do his good pleasure . . . looking ahead, to the present and back as a witness of God. It would seem God has designed his wisdom giving us a hope beyond human hope . Heming us in with his labor of love. Helping us to live one day at a time, one moment. . . giving a moment of Joy and strengthening us in moments of sorrow . I would call it a beautiful parable in that way .Possibly a work of living faith a work of humbling our heart giving it rest.
Ecclesiastics 7:13-14 Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked? In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider: God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him.
Therefore a person can discover nothing of the future, we walk by faith. Pray not to let the future cloud the present. Enjoy life while we can work hard to suffer .perhaps he will strengthen . In that way we can let no debt outstanding except for the continuing debt to love one another.
I think in that way a living Gospel hope worked in the old testament saints in the same way as with us. Their hope looked to the present and to the future as to the coming glory beforehand and we by the same spirit of faith look back to the glorious demonstration. I think it is what 1 Peter is representing. They like us received the fulness of grace from the beginning when they first believed.
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter 1:9-10
I think the example in a parable found in Exodus reflects the work of prophecy , resting a heart, giving a living hope . Moses had just received commandments having to do with the first born the circumcision ceremony. God was ready to kill Gershom Moses first born And God used a previous gentile woman Zipporah to represent the priesthood of Christ .
Zipporah moved by the Spirit looked ahead to our bloody husband Christ. Twice he repeats it as two witness, the one witness of God .The father and the Son.. Law and the prophets .
Similar to the parable of Abraham and Isaac
Exodus 4:25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.
When the veil representing the foreskin of our bloody husband Christ was rent it revealed the source of our faith. Not of here under the Sun, above that.
Jesus said not to "lord it over one another". He didn't say anything about authority structures. Unless you think that Paul's letters aren't Scripture, you would have a hard time making your case in light of Paul's instruction to "appoint elders in every city".
The commandment does not say I will; never forsake the flesh of a Jew. And it does not say I will take the whole nation as his bride. But one of the family or two .Christians as the bride of Christ walk with Christ as two agreeing to Him, one .
The living commandment is to repent .But they repented not and continued to make the word of God, the gospel without effect, Just like those of Israel below. the divorced Israel
Jerimiah 44:16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
Its not comparing. He is asking them what about the ten commandment the bill I used to put them away?
We walk by faith .
Not show me then I will believe. Who needs faith coming from a unseen source? Like. . . You shall not surely die, look at me sssss
and live. We are made aware of that in Genesis. . same work different day. John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Did he call down water and baptize them ?
It would seem to me the idea of a woman having a different teaching authority than man. Never..no way
It would move things backward to a time of bondage when there was Kings in Israel .(the abomination of desolation)
Men and woman were not allowed to celebrate the ceremonial laws. There was a high wall that separated them, and another that separated the Jewish woman from the gentiles. The wall came tumbling down when they veil was rent . The time of reformation came restoring the order of Judges. Men and woman prophets as apostles. The kind of order we are under.
The reformation destroyed all the kings (the abomination of desolation) as kingdoms of men who walked by sight as if the kingdom of God (not of here under the Sun) did come by observing the corrupted things seen and men lorded it over the faith of others .Like Catholicism .
Ezra 6:12 And the God that hath caused his name to dwell there destroy "all kings" and people, that shall put to their hand to alter and to destroy this house of God which is at Jerusalem. I Darius have made a decree; let it be done with speed
He propmised he would destroy all kings and Emperors as Empires, gods in the likeness of men . Japan lost theirs they have a resprentittive of the old order but not the government. It seems Christianity and the gospel has been doing its work of giving men faith.
Ultimately we are to call no man or woman teacher .One is our teacher as Lord not seen. Even the Son of man Jesus would no sit in that position but gave glory to the unseen father . We can plant the seed t like the prophetess Deborah and water if with the doctrines of God .But if any new life or growth he does the work in us with us to both will and perform it. Making our burden lighter yoked with him
In that ceremony the women got carried away in the hair covering and unconverted for the men . . over came by the joy the new freedom and it took away virtue of both man and woman (the bride ) working as one.
The husband or wife should be silent wait until they are home to share their gospel views .The Ceremony pointed to the unseen one . they male and female working together as one new creature represented the unseen glory in anticipation to the Wedding Supper in the new order.
S
Scribe
Guest
You will stand at the judgment seat of Christ and your ministry works will be determined whether they are wood hay and stubble in which case they will be burned up and there will be no reward but you will still be saved. What he is talking about is our teaching. What we tell others that the bible says.
I agree with you that you must follow your conscience and what you believe is the correct interpretation or authorial intent of a particular passage.
One man may be convinced that he is right and another man is convinced that his interpretation is what God is really saying. One of those interpretations may be discovered to be wrong at the bema seat of Christ. No rewards for teaching it. The other who was teaching the correct interpretation is rewarded.
There are people who's lives were affected for all eternity in a positive way by hearing the correct interpretation and authorial intent and therefore there are rewards for teaching it. The incorrect interpretation results in no lives being bettered for it, no one being made more like Jesus, and so wood, hay stubble, waste of time. POOF! Smoke and ashes.. at the Bema seat. The hours of teaching wasted...
A woman preaching and turning many to righteousness, planting churches and turning the world upside down with the power of the Holy Ghost? Definitely on the side of gold, precious gems, silver, diamonds... REWARDS... The one saying she should not do that because she is a woman.. wood, hay stubble... no rewards.
I think I get where you are coming from, I mean I know everyone has different ideas what a prophet is and what the actual role of the prophet is within the church but my understanding of it is that a prophet speaks the truth of God from within as if God himself were speaking it, in the old testament they were mainly used more for pointing to future events but in the new testament church It is my belief they are to help guide encourage strenghten and uphold the church, God speaks through them not so much to give a prophecy but to give his people hope and bring them closer to him
This isn't to say he doesn't give prophecies or prophetic dreams and visions and yes while we are all do do these things in church the prophet is one who excels in this area thier spirit just almost insitinctively does this as the words just flow and in this sense perhaps that is also how the parables of Jesus teaching were I mean he was God and man a teacher a healer a miracle worker but he was also a prophet
I think in our nature of battling against the things of the spirit that tempt us to sin we do a good enough job at this as it is.
Now I know I have not been very interact in this thread but it was clearly made to intice war most here I am sure can agree with that but at the same time if we know this but fuel the fire are we not just as guilty in doing this?
I have been considering making a thread on this subject even though I hate what this topic does because most threads like this are made with intent to cause war while the poster sits back and watches the fire unfold.
I want a thread with the intent purpose of discussion no attacks no name calling no sarcastic remarks ( except the humor remarks as long as it it not intended to hurt anyone) and above all having respect towards each other as it is discussed.
I know this is a very touchy topic so misgivings and sometimes attacks are to be expected I know we are flawed and sometimes let our emotions get the better of us so obviously I would not hound everyone every time a slip up happens but the majority of the posts need to be within the guidlines.
And of course I am sure many people wopuld say how immature everyone is and how these attacks are bound to happen but I know it is possible because I have seen it happen before it is called self control and speaking with Gods love and heart that is after all what we are called to do and be as Christians unless that was just words to most people.
I do not want a thread of this nature to keep being fed so I am thinking of doing this if people still want to feed the fire I cannot stop them
You will stand at the judgment seat of Christ and your ministry works will be determined whether they are wood hay and stubble in which case they will be burned up and there will be no reward but you will still be saved. What he is talking about is our teaching. What we tell others that the bible says.
I agree with you that you must follow your conscience and what you believe is the correct interpretation or authorial intent of a particular passage.
One man may be convinced that he is right and another man is convinced that his interpretation is what God is really saying. One of those interpretations may be discovered to be wrong at the bema seat of Christ. No rewards for teaching it. The other who was teaching the correct interpretation is rewarded.
There are people who's lives were affected for all eternity in a positive way by hearing the correct interpretation and authorial intent and therefore there are rewards for teaching it. The incorrect interpretation results in no lives being bettered for it, no one being made more like Jesus, and so wood, hay stubble, waste of time. POOF! Smoke and ashes.. at the Bema seat. The hours of teaching wasted...
You are correct, its the Lord who judges us.
An question to you, is 1. Cor.11,3 Gods word ore human word?
So also to you the question. Is 1. Cor.11,3 Gods word ore human word? And is it OT ore NT?
Hey Wolfie... just a quick note: I know English is not your first language, and you do fairly well with it. Where you use "or" to indicate another option, there is no "e"; the word is simply "or".
In English, "ore" is the raw rock from which minerals are extracted, such as "iron ore".
S
Scribe
Guest
3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. 5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. 11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. 13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
Now here is a good example of proper hermeneutics. Someone could read this and say that his wife should cover her head in church because THE WORD OF GOD says so. But does it? Hermeneutics requires that we determine who he was talking to, cultural context, and other statements that are made in the context. We can see that he ends it with; But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. By saying this he makes it obvious that the custom he was referring to of the woman covering the head was a Jewish custom and not a custom in the churches of God. Many having no proper training in hermeneutics have run off and put a rule of head covering on their women. Now they may preach sermons about it from the pulpit and countless hours explaining the spiritual significance of authority as Paul taught and when they get to the Judgment seat of Christ... POOF... wood hay stubble. And probably an admonition "What part of verse 16 did you not understand?"
Now it is true that the husband has God given authority and responsibility to take care of the family, protect it, teach the word, lead in prayer etc, but none of that means that God does not want women to preach and teach the bible and evangelize the world along with men. It is to both sons and daughters that the Holy Spirit is poured out with ministry gifts of the Spirit for MINISTRY. They are mostly SPEAKING gifts of the Spirit. Your sons and daughters shall PROPHESY. Give me a woman PROPHESYING over a man just droning on out of his own spirit any day. Can I get an AMEN?
K