What does it "REALLY" mean that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?

There is a human person [a Jew, the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth] sitting at the right hand of God [Yahweh, the living God, the Father, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the one and only true God, the God of the human Jewish person seated at his right hand] in heaven.

I don’t think trinitarians can leave “Trinitarianism” aside. The language of trinitarianism permeates their vocabulary. This can be seen in your communication to me. Let’s look at one example: the phrase, “God the Son”.

In Greek, the phrase “God the Son” is “theos ho huios”.

How many times does this phrase occur in scripture? 0.

If we could truly set aside trinitarianism and focus on the Bible, our language would sound different. Rather than speaking about “God the Son” (a theological term of later trinitarianism) we would speak about “the Son of God”.

How many times is Jesus called “the Son of God” in the NT? 37.

I ask you the following question? "So tell me, is this statement true or Biblical? Jesus Christ, is God who became a human being when He incarnated/became flesh according to John 1:14?" You said, "No."

Can you please give me a Biblical reason/or reasons why your answer is "No?"

Yes, but first I’d like to finish our discussion on why you say “Jesus was God who became a human person“ when trinitarianism teaches us that “Jesus is not a human person“.

“1. In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God.
2. The same was in the beginnynge with God.
3. All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.
4. In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men
5. and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darccknes comprehended it not.

14. And the worde was made flesshe and dwelt amonge vs and we sawe the glory of it as the glory of the only begotten sonne of ye father which worde was full of grace and verite.”

(Tyndale Bible, 1534)

https://tyndalebible.com/john-chapter-1/

it's also amusing when an atheist tells me they know more about what i believe than i do.

Jesus was God who became a human person = Jesus is not a human person.

Is that where you want to leave it, bluto?

I highly suggest Mattathias that your read "carefully" what Craig said here: https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-book-blog/2015/is-worship-of-jesus-idolatry

Your misunderstanding the point of what he says. The one person of Jesus Christ "assumed" a human nature and we are not worshiping His nature but rather who He is. Thomas declared (literally) to the one person of Jesus Christ, "The Lord of me and the God of me." If you notice, Thomas was looking at a 100% contingent human being when he said what he said at John 20:28.

So, I guess I will have to bring out the "big guns" and school you on this subject. Does the term "person" appear in the Bible?" Yes! The Greek word for person is "prospon." Strongs #5287. Examples follow.

Matthew 22:16, "....thou regardest not the person of men." Matthew 27:24, "...I am innocent of the blood of this just person" Another one, 2 Corinthinas 2:10, "But whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for ou sakes IN THE PERSON/PRESENCE OF CHRIST."

Now pay attention--The word "person" also appears here: Hebrews 1:3, "who being the birghtness of his glory, and the express image of his PERSON." this last one is critical because in the original Greek the word translated as "person" is "hypostasis." The substantial quality, nature, or a person or thing." The same word is rendered as "substance" in Hebrews 11:1.

Furthermore, in everycase, here we see the word "person" in the Bible (including "hypostasis" it is routinely used in the original Greek Scriptures in EXACTLY the same way it is used in the Greek use of these Greek words to explain trinitarian theology to Greek speaking people.

And like I said the other term translated as "person" here is "prosopon" whihc is also translated as "face" most often, as "person" and also as "presence" and "countenance" throughout the New Testament. In every case it MEANS that by which the IDENTITY is expressed or manifest--EXACTLY what is means in trinitarian theology when we say ther there are three "persons" who share the same "nature."

Does the word "nature" appear in the Bible? Yes, it does. The Greek word is "phusis." It appears at Galatians 2:15, "We who are Jews by NATURE, and not sinners from among the Gentiles." Or Ephesians 2:3, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." 2 Peter 1:4, "ye might be partakers of the divine nature"

Now, not only does it "appear" in the Bible but the Greek term "phusis" (Strongs number 5449) which refers to "the sum of innate properties and powers by which one person differs from others is used in the bible in EXACTLY the same way as it is used in trinitarian theology when we say there is ONE god who's nature (that which distinguished Him from all that is NOT GOD is manifest in three persons by which the identity is expressed.

So in summary, if you were to ask me if God is a person, I would say "yes and no." I do not believe God is a person "as we are." I believe His personhood is like ours for we are created in His image and after His likeness. But we are as far below Him as the earth is below the heavens in all respects. Personhood is one of those respects. Therefore yes, I believe God is a person "like we are" to a certain extent, but I believe His ONTOLOGICAL self, His whole being is also far beyond "personshood" in the human sense."

The big problem with humans, (and this is in a theological sense especially in regard to Unitarianism and other anti's that deny the deity of Jesus Christ) is that they want to bring God down to a strickly human level. For instance, God is infinite, omniscient and omnipresent. None of the attributes are readily availiable to the finite human mind. I hope this helps.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

God is not a man . Neither Jewish nor gentile, male or female . God is light. God is Spirit. God is Love. (The trinity.)

When the Son of man Jesus, the apostle as a prophet left he left clear instructions from the father never again forever and ever more.

If he did not leave the Holy Spirit could not come in full capacity. This shows us no man can serve two teaching masters (an abomination of desolation.

Blasphemy against the Son of man was forgivable up until the Son of man, Jesus left. The window of forgiveness closed when he disappeared out of sight. Never to reopen ever again. We walk by faith the unseen eternal not after the temporal flesh and blood what the eyes see.

There is no human person named “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus is a divine person, and medieval theologians were careful never to refer to Jesus as a human person. - William Lane Craig

He meant what he said.

Go to him with “Jesus was God who became a human person” and he will school you.

There is no human person named “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus is a divine person, and medieval theologians were careful never to refer to Jesus as a human person. - William Lane Craig

He meant what he said.

Go to him with “Jesus was God who became a human person” and he will school you.

There is no human person named “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus is a divine person, and medieval theologians were careful never to refer to Jesus as a human person. - William Lane Craig

This is what happens when people look to theologians for answers rather than to Scripture itself. The statement 'There is no human person named “Jesus of Nazareth.”' is totally false.

Craig (and the other Protestant and Catholic scholars I quoted in this thread - many more saying the same thing could be produced, the Church has been saying it for centuries) trace this belief to the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD and believe it is supported in scripture. (At least one of the scholars I quoted provided scriptural references which he believes - I don’t - supports orthodoxy.)

Dino246, post: 4337000, member: 223333"]That's not the Trinity of Christian belief.

Meaningless redundance.

Wrong. There is nothing in Scripture to support your assertions

“The orthodox doctrine of the incarnation, promulgated at the Council of Chalcedon is emphatic that in the incarnate Christ there is one and only one, undivided person who has two distinct natures, one human and one divine. That one person is the second person of the Trinity, the Son, and is therefore divine. He is not a human person...” - William Lane Craig

Dr. Craig is doing nothing more than telling his readers what the Church decided was orthodox (i.e. right, correct, true) belief. He’s giving us a (Church) history lesson.

Do you hear this preached from the pulpit? Not likely.

The next time I see Dr. Craig I’m going to mention our conversation, bluto. (If I show it to him in writing I’ll redact your name.)

Looking forward to hearing what he has to say about an alum who believes what you believe about the Incarnation.

That's fine, you have my permission and you do not have to "redact" my name. You copy and paste every word I said here:

I highly suggest Mattathias that your read "carefully" what Craig said here: https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-book-blog/2015/is-worship-of-jesus-idolatry

Your misunderstanding the point of what he says. The one person of Jesus Christ "assumed" a human nature and we are not worshiping His nature but rather who He is. Thomas declared (literally) to the one person of Jesus Christ, "The Lord of me and the God of me." If you notice, Thomas was looking at a 100% contingent human being when he said what he said at John 20:28.

So, I guess I will have to bring out the "big guns" and school you on this subject. Does the term "person" appear in the Bible?" Yes! The Greek word for person is "prospon." Strongs #5287. Examples follow.

Matthew 22:16, "....thou regardest not the person of men." Matthew 27:24, "...I am innocent of the blood of this just person" Another one, 2 Corinthinas 2:10, "But whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for ou sakes IN THE PERSON/PRESENCE OF CHRIST."

Now pay attention--The word "person" also appears here: Hebrews 1:3, "who being the birghtness of his glory, and the express image of his PERSON." this last one is critical because in the original Greek the word translated as "person" is "hypostasis." The substantial quality, nature, or a person or thing." The same word is rendered as "substance" in Hebrews 11:1.

Furthermore, in everycase, here we see the word "person" in the Bible (including "hypostasis" it is routinely used in the original Greek Scriptures in EXACTLY the same way it is used in the Greek use of these Greek words to explain trinitarian theology to Greek speaking people.

And like I said the other term translated as "person" here is "prosopon" whihc is also translated as "face" most often, as "person" and also as "presence" and "countenance" throughout the New Testament. In every case it MEANS that by which the IDENTITY is expressed or manifest--EXACTLY what is means in trinitarian theology when we say ther there are three "persons" who share the same "nature."

Does the word "nature" appear in the Bible? Yes, it does. The Greek word is "phusis." It appears at Galatians 2:15, "We who are Jews by NATURE, and not sinners from among the Gentiles." Or Ephesians 2:3, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." 2 Peter 1:4, "ye might be partakers of the divine nature"

Now, not only does it "appear" in the Bible but the Greek term "phusis" (Strongs number 5449) which refers to "the sum of innate properties and powers by which one person differs from others is used in the bible in EXACTLY the same way as it is used in trinitarian theology when we say there is ONE god who's nature (that which distinguished Him from all that is NOT GOD is manifest in three persons by which the identity is expressed.

So in summary, if you were to ask me if God is a person, I would say "yes and no." I do not believe God is a person "as we are." I believe His personhood is like ours for we are created in His image and after His likeness. But we are as far below Him as the earth is below the heavens in all respects. Personhood is one of those respects. Therefore yes, I believe God is a person "like we are" to a certain extent, but I believe His ONTOLOGICAL self, His whole being is also far beyond "personshood" in the human sense."

The big problem with humans, (and this is in a theological sense especially in regard to Unitarianism and other anti's that deny the deity of Jesus Christ) is that they want to bring God down to a strickly human level. For instance, God is infinite, omniscient and omnipresent. None of the attributes are readily availiable to the finite human mind. I hope this helps.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

That's fine, you have my permission and you do not have to "redact" my name. You copy and paste every word I said here:

I highly suggest Mattathias that your read "carefully" what Craig said here: https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-book-blog/2015/is-worship-of-jesus-idolatry

Your misunderstanding the point of what he says. The one person of Jesus Christ "assumed" a human nature and we are not worshiping His nature but rather who He is. Thomas declared (literally) to the one person of Jesus Christ, "The Lord of me and the God of me." If you notice, Thomas was looking at a 100% contingent human being when he said what he said at John 20:28.

So, I guess I will have to bring out the "big guns" and school you on this subject. Does the term "person" appear in the Bible?" Yes! The Greek word for person is "prospon." Strongs #5287. Examples follow.

Matthew 22:16, "....thou regardest not the person of men." Matthew 27:24, "...I am innocent of the blood of this just person" Another one, 2 Corinthinas 2:10, "But whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for ou sakes IN THE PERSON/PRESENCE OF CHRIST."

Now pay attention--The word "person" also appears here: Hebrews 1:3, "who being the birghtness of his glory, and the express image of his PERSON." this last one is critical because in the original Greek the word translated as "person" is "hypostasis." The substantial quality, nature, or a person or thing." The same word is rendered as "substance" in Hebrews 11:1.

Furthermore, in everycase, here we see the word "person" in the Bible (including "hypostasis" it is routinely used in the original Greek Scriptures in EXACTLY the same way it is used in the Greek use of these Greek words to explain trinitarian theology to Greek speaking people.

And like I said the other term translated as "person" here is "prosopon" whihc is also translated as "face" most often, as "person" and also as "presence" and "countenance" throughout the New Testament. In every case it MEANS that by which the IDENTITY is expressed or manifest--EXACTLY what is means in trinitarian theology when we say ther there are three "persons" who share the same "nature."

Does the word "nature" appear in the Bible? Yes, it does. The Greek word is "phusis." It appears at Galatians 2:15, "We who are Jews by NATURE, and not sinners from among the Gentiles." Or Ephesians 2:3, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." 2 Peter 1:4, "ye might be partakers of the divine nature"

Now, not only does it "appear" in the Bible but the Greek term "phusis" (Strongs number 5449) which refers to "the sum of innate properties and powers by which one person differs from others is used in the bible in EXACTLY the same way as it is used in trinitarian theology when we say there is ONE god who's nature (that which distinguished Him from all that is NOT GOD is manifest in three persons by which the identity is expressed.

So in summary, if you were to ask me if God is a person, I would say "yes and no." I do not believe God is a person "as we are." I believe His personhood is like ours for we are created in His image and after His likeness. But we are as far below Him as the earth is below the heavens in all respects. Personhood is one of those respects. Therefore yes, I believe God is a person "like we are" to a certain extent, but I believe His ONTOLOGICAL self, His whole being is also far beyond "personshood" in the human sense."

The big problem with humans, (and this is in a theological sense especially in regard to Unitarianism and other anti's that deny the deity of Jesus Christ) is that they want to bring God down to a strickly human level. For instance, God is infinite, omniscient and omnipresent. None of the attributes are readily availiable to the finite human mind. I hope this helps. PS: I'm hoping your an honorable man and tell me "EXACTLY" what he said, leave out nothing.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto