Was "Noah's Flood" global or local?

Was "Noah's Flood" global or local? What does the Bible say (actually) then how does everyone else explain it?

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● Gen 7:19-20 . .When the waters had swelled much more upon the earth,
all the highest mountains everywhere under the sky were covered. Fifteen
cubits higher did the waters swell, as the mountains were covered.

FAQ: Is it possible that the Flood was local rather than global?

A: Well; the problem with that theory is: the waters breached the highest
mountains by fifteen cubits (22½ feet). So then, if perchance Noah lived in a
geographic basin, the waters would have overflowed the mountains
surrounding him and kept on going before they ever got up to that 22½ feet
of extra elevation.

But the water would start spilling past Noah's area long before it breached
the tops of the highest mountains surrounding him because mountain ranges
aren't shaped smooth, level, and planed like the rim of a domestic bath tub.
No; they're very irregular and consist of high points and low points; viz:
peaks, valleys, canyons, saddles, and passes.

Thus mountain ranges make poor bath tubs because you would lose water
through the low points before it even had a chance to fill to the peaks. In
point of fact, were the sides of your bathtub shaped like a mountain range;
you could never fill it. And in trying to; just end up with water all over the
floor.

BTW: 22½ feet may not seem like a lot of water but when you consider the
diameter of the Earth, that is an enormous amount when it's above the
highest mountains. How high were the highest mountains in Noah's day?
Nobody really knows. But just supposing the tallest at that time was about
equal to California's Mount Laguna east of San Diego; viz: 5,738 feet above
sea level-- about 1.1 miles. Adding 22½ feet to that comes out to
approximately 5,761 feet.

The amount of rain it would take to accumulate that much water in only
forty days would be something like six global feet of depth per hour (not
taking into consideration that the diameter of the water's surface would
increase as the water got deeper)

To put that in perspective: the lobby of the Empire State Building in New
York city is approximately 47 feet above sea level. At 6 feet per hour, the
lobby would be under water in less than eight hours. The whole building,
lightening rod and all; would be under water in just a little over ten days.
The new One World Trade Center would be gone in about thirteen days, and
Denver in less than thirty-seven.
_

1.When I was in primary school, the textbook said that found marine shellfish on the Himalayas。Scientifically speaking, this is the result of crustal movement，But if it's crustal movement, marine shellfish should be found everywhere, not just on the Himalayas。

2.Modern archaeology has found many underwater human sites close to the seaside. I think that is probably due to Geological subsidence caused by water pressure as high as the Himalayas.

3.God can create water out of nothing,
Job 12：15

"Noah's Flood" was global.

Answer:


The Global Flood:

As for the size of the Flood it was completely Global, not 'ethnocentric', but rather was covering the whole surface of the entire earth below the heavens even as high as 15 cubits above the "then" highest mountains.

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. (Genesis 7:20)

[1] First we see that the waters "prevail[ed]". "...the waters prevailed..." [Genesis 7:18,19,20,24] From the Hebrew [Tr.]: "gabar" meaning to "have strength over", "over-powering", etc. The waters "prevail[ed]" so much so, that "fifteen cubits upward" above the very "mountains were covered" and overcame, so that "all the high hills", being "under the whole heaven, were covered".

And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that [were] under the whole heaven, were covered. (Genesis 7:19)

[2] Secondly we read that all men ["all flesh" and "every man", vs 21], from "under the whole heaven" and all land animals and birds ["fowls also of the air" vs 3 and "fowl(s)" vs 8,14,21 and "fowl of heaven" vs 23], wherein is the breath of life, outside of the Ark were destroyed:

And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. (Genesis 6:13)

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein [is] the breath of life, from under heaven; [and] every thing that [is] in the earth shall die. (Genesis 6:17)

And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: (Genesis 7:21)

And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. (Genesis 9:11)

And I will remember my covenant, which [is] between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. (Genesis 9:15)

Consider carefully that the text is from the viewpoint of GOD ["before ME" Genesis 6:13, 7:1], and that which is "under the whole heaven", and not some localized, ethnocentric event. It would be meaningless to have those "fowls" which could fly enter into the Ark, the Clean Pairs [of Sevens] an the Unclean Pairs [by Twos], should the Flood not be indeed entriely global. It is easily demonstrated that Birds can fly away from and can escape a local flood, especially since the Flood did not cover all the mountains in a single day. In fact, animals know of disaster many hours and sometimes even days in advance of men, and would have fled before it even happened, but instead we see them miraculously brought to the Ark by God, in Pairs! Mankind also who were left outside of the Ark, too could just as easily flee to another location through various means should the flood be merely local. The Antediluvians were no fools [though such, not to enter the Ark] to stand around while waters arose, for these men were of giant intellect, knowing city building [Genesis 4:17], metalurgy [Genesis 4:22], fine craft like musical instruments, arts [Genesis 4:21], tent making [Genesis 4:20], etc. [and we can even go to places in the world where such ancient remains are found of said civilization, massive stones, superb craftsmanship, surgery, things of exquisite and even unrepeatable design, more on this later]

[3] Thirdly, the Covenant that GOD makes with Noah and "all flesh" is universal [entirely global] in scope. Look again at the Promise and Covenant made by GOD:

And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. (Genesis 9:11)

And I will remember my covenant, which [is] between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. (Genesis 9:15)

The Promise and Covenant of GOD then made would be meaningless, as would be the sign ["[rain]bow" Genesis 9:13] given to "all flesh". If the Flood only destroyed a local [ethnocentric] locale then the Promise is worthless Biblically, for endless floods and disasters have since come upon the earth and wiped out many peoples, and beasts. Just look at the recent destruction in Japan, and further back, New Orleans, etc.

I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. (Genesis 9:13)

However, GOD's promise stand's firm, in that never again would a Flood of water cover the whole earth, even though in the very end times to come, "islands" will flee away at the coming destruction.

[4] Fourthly, GOD made all men, and not just those in “Noah's valley” [ethnocentric locale]:

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:26)

And so, GOD was angry with all mortals ["all flesh"] upon the Earth:

The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. (Genesis 6:11)

And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. (Genesis 6:12)

[5] Fifthly, GOD had ALL the fountains of the great abyss break up, not just some localized [ethnocentric] fountains, nor few fountains, but ALL:

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. (Genesis 7:11)

The Bible declares that the great abyss is below the entire surface of the earth, and not merely localized to “Noah's valley” [ethnocentric locale]:

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (Genesis 1:2)

Answer:

[6] Sixthly, the Flood lasted much longer than 40 days and 40 nights [in which it rained], for it lasted roughly a little over a year [370], counting the entirety of time:

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. (Genesis 7:11)

And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. (Genesis 7:12)

And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first [month], the first [day] of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry. (Genesis 8:13)

And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried. (Genesis 8:14)

The Rain, from the floodgates of the sky, was not the only part of the Deluge, but also the vast amounts and endless volumes of water which burst forth from beneath the earth in the breaking up of the great abyss:

The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; (Genesis 8:2)

The remainder of scripture also gives:

Job says:

Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown with a flood: (Job 22:16) [speaking of all of the wicked men and the way in which they had trodden, verse 15]

Isaiah declares a global flood:

For this [is as] the waters of Noah unto me: for [as] I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee. (Isaiah 54:9)

Peter makes it quite clear that GOD destroyed them all and took them all away (buried in water, a figure of complete immersion of baptism, then after to be covered in fire), only 8 souls of mankind being saved [Noah "only" and his family and their wives Genesis 7:23]:

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:20)

The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1 Peter 3:21)

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; (2 Peter 2:5)

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (2 Peter 3:3)

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (2 Peter 3:5)

Whereby the world that then was, being, overflowed with water, perished: (2 Peter 3:6)

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (2 Peter 3:7)

Several words used by Peter in the Greek for this flood are, "Kosmos", universe, totality of something [like of the earth/planet], and "kataklyzō", 1) to overwhelm with water, to submerge, deluge [like Baptism, complete total immersion/submersion] [it is also where we get the word cataclysm] and Peter directly equates that Global judgment by water to the one to come by fire - total global judgment.

[7] A seventh serious matter, would be to localize the Flood to an ethnocentric locale would then cripple the Final Judgment of scripture to an ethnocentric locale, as Peter equates them together, one the forerunner of the other [a world baptised in Water, then also Fire, like as we]. Scripture is more than clear on the global fires to come [can be cited if necessary].

[8] Eighth, in even that JESUS HIMSELF says that they were all destroyed in the flood, and relates the flood to the final judgment by fire [which will cover the whole Earth, Revelation 20, etc]:

But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matthew 24:37)

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, (Matthew 24:38)

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matthew 24:39)

And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. (Luke 17:26)

They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. (Luke 17:27)

All of the wicked humans were destroyed by the Flood and only 8 humans were spared - yet Satan lived through the flood and continued to entice...

Other mentions of the great flood:

Thou coveredst it with the deep as [with] a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. (Psalms 104:6)

Others, seeking to make excuses, cite other passages, but do not consider their context, and so dealing with 'roaring lions' and 'here be dragons'...

Psalms 104. Deals with the totality of the waters from their Creation [Psalms 104:5-6a], to their covering the Earth [Psalms 104:6b-8], to no more again covering the whole earth by God's covenant [Psalms 104:9-13, etc].

Job 38. Speaking about the omnipotence of God declaring that He controls and upholds all things and sets their bounds, whether they be held or released for His purposes. The time of Job is after the Global Flood and before Abraham. Job fully believed in the Globality of the Flood, see noted passages above or [Job 22:15-16, 26:5,12; etc].

Proverbs 8. Again as Job, signifying God's Omnipotence and His controlling and upholding all things by His Power, He setting their bounds, whether they be held or released for His Purposes. They should not "pass His commandment", nor can they do otherwise than to respond to His will, as was done in the Global Flood.

Compromise is impossible.

Answer:

Some ancient-old eyewitnesses: - http://www.noahsark.it/Testimonies list.htm

· 275 BC – Berossus reporting on the history of Babylonia, claims that pilgrims went up a mountain in Armenia to carve amulets from the petrified pitch that covers the Ark (Berossus quoted by Abydenus (200 BC), Apollodorus (160 BC), Alexander Polyhistor (50 BC), Josephus (110 AD), Eusebius, (325 AD), Georgius Syncellus (800 AD)). - https://www.livius.org/articles/misc/great-flood/flood3_t-berossus/

· 64 BC - 1st Century AD – Nicholas of Damascus (96th book) mentions remains of Noah's Ark, "... There is a great mountain in Armenia, over Minyas, called Baris, upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the Deluge were saved and that one who was carried in an ark came on shore upon the top of it; and that the remains of the timber were a great while preserved. ..."

· 50 AD – Josephus mentions remains of Noah's Ark 3 times, "... The Armenians call that spot the Landing-Place, for it was there that the Ark came safe to land and they show relics of it to this day. ...", "... This flood and the Ark are mentioned by all who have written histories of the barbarians. These matters are also mentioned by Hieronymus the Egyptian, author of the ancient history of Phoenicia, by Mnaseas and by many others and they are still shown to such as are desirous to see them. ..."

· 180 AD Theophilus of Antioch, "... And of the Ark, the remains are to this day to be seen in the Arabian mountains. ..."

· 315? - 403 AD – Epiphanius report that remains of the Ark are on a mountain in the Gordian mountains.

· 349 - 407 AD Chrysostom mentions remains of Noah's Ark

· 4th Century AD – Faustus of Byzantium reports the experiences of a bishop who traveled to the region of "Gortouk" to see the ark.

· AD 425 church historian Philostorgius’s account (in Book 3 as epitomized by Photius)

· 560 - 636 AD Isidore of Seville mentions remains of Noah's Ark

· 620 AD - According to Hussein El Macin of Baghdad, Roman Emperor Heraclius visits the remains of the Ark after conquering the Persian city of Themanin.

· 1254 AD - Haithon refers to Mt. Ararat as the resting place of Noah's Ark.

· 1255 AD - Guillaume of Ruysbroeck tells of the devout Jacob of Medzpin's adventure on Ararat and his answered prayer to see the Ark.

· 13th Century AD - Marco Polo mentions in his book The Travels of Marco Polo the Ark was still resting on the summit of Mt. Ararat.

· 1647 AD - Adam Olearius' Voyage and Travels of the Ambassadors relates Armenian and Persian stories of the petrified Ark.

· 1820 (?) AD - Explorer Claudius James Rich writes that one Aga Hussein has seen the remains of the Ark.

· 1829 AD - Dr. Friedrich Parrot makes the first modern ascent of Greater Ararat. He visits the ancient St. James Monastery ( also known as St. Jacob Monastery ), that was destroyed in the 1840 eruption of Mt. Ararat.

· 1854 AD - Haji Yearam and his father lead three British scientists up Ararat to the Ark remains.

· 1878 AD - Viscount James Bryce climbs Ararat as recounted in his book Transcaucasia and Ararat. He finds old hand-tooled timber on this treeless mountain.

· 1883 AD - Turkish Commisioners investigate severe Ararat avalanches and report seeing the preserved but battered Ark structure. Locals claimed the remains were visible for six years. ( Nieuwe Rotterdamsche Courant, July 28, 1883 ) ( Chicago Tribune, August 10, 1883 ) ( New York Herald, August 10, 1883 ).. ( New York World, August 13, 1883 ).( New York Times, August 15, 1883 ).( The Watchtower, September 1883 )..Considered the most complete and accurate account appeared in the British Prophetic Messenger in the summer of 1883. ( Click on Turkish Commisioners for the full story )

· 1887 AD - John Joseph, Prince of Nouri, Archbishop and Grand Apostolic Ambassador of Malabar, India and Persia, makes three attempts to climb Ararat. He claims a sighting near the saddle between the peaks. Suggest the Ark be sent to the Chicago World's fair.

· 1900-1908 AD - George Hagopian climbs Ararat with his uncle and reports seeing and climbs onto the preserved Ark. At only ten years succeeded with simple attire of shepherd in reaching well twice with his uncle the ark. Look photo and sketches

· 1916 - 1917 AD - Czar Nicholas II sends an expedition of 150 men to map Ararat and document Ark. After report by Roskovitski (Zabolotsky) pilot of the Russian imperial aviation. Revolution erupts and evidence disappears. Look entire Russian expedition

· 1936 AD - New Zealander Hardwidke Knight finds very old hand tooled timbers high on Ararat.

· 1942 AD - American soldier Ray Lubeck views Ark in a 30 - 120 second film clip on Midway Island in 1942.

· 1943 AD - American soldier Ed Davis glimpses huge broken Ark sections in Ahora Gorge.

· 1944 AD - American soldier Vince Will views Ark from plane on Mt. Ararat

· 1945 AD - American soldier aka - Caleb views Ark from plane on Mt. Ararat

· 1946 AD - American soldier Charlie McCallen views Ark in a 30 - 60 second news reel in a movie theater in Jackson Tennessee.

· 1948 AD - Farmer Shakru Arsent tells newspaper of farmer named Re**** seeing petrified remains of a ship-like structure high on Ararat.

. 1952 1953 AD George Jefferson Greene technical oil American saw a big emergent bow from the ice to northeast, a similar ship construction situated in a gorge near a precipice

· 1953 - 1955 AD - William Todd was a photographer's in Turkey who claims to have seen Noah's Ark many times while flying over Mt. Ararat.

.1955 AD Fernand Navarra French industrialist: he saw under the ice an dark mass alike to keel of a ship. In the '55 and in the '69 of it put out some wood pieces, that it brought to to analyze in the four laboratories of world fame: to Cairo, Madrid, Paris and to Bordeaux. The tests on the degree of fossilization, on the cellular modification etc,they showed that the champion went up again really to the epoch of the Deluge, that is 4500 years ago around. Look Navara documentation

· 1956 - 1957 AD - Herb Knee views Ark in a 60 - 120 second news reel in a movie theater in Winchester Tennessee. [ Herb's Drawings of what he saw. ]

. 1959- 1960 AD Gregor Schwinghammer Captain U.S.A. Air Force Pilot saw a great barge in a gully in the ice Look Gregor interview (WMP format)

· 1964 AD - Retired Air Force Master Sergeant claims to see wood structure on Mt. Ararat.

· 1968 AD - David Duckworth claims as a Smithsonian volunteer he saw ark artifacts from Mt. Ararat.

.1969 Fernand Navarra already quoted in 1955 with the named expedition "Search" was extract some wood pieces from the Parrot glacier on Mt Ararat

· 1969 -1970 AD - Lt. Col. Walter D. Hunter was shown photos of what allegedly was Noah's Ark.

. 1974 Ed Behling, quoted already, veteran USAF, said that he passed "above and under some rocks, he stuck out from a ledge and he saw the ark 50 feet under " Also him saw it from higher position.

. 1985 AD U.S. Air Force General Ralph Havens confirm about a structure on Ararat: We've seen it. We have photos of it -

. 1989 AD Angelo Palego chemical engineer claim to see the Ark front just under strange parallel crevasses

· 1992 - 1993 AD - Rolando Reyna watched a Saturday night newscast which showed film footage of Noah's Ark on Ararat on a Mexican City Broadcast.

. 2002 Cludio Schranz alpine guide of Mt. Rosa filmed a wooden beam emergent from the Parrot glacier on Mt. Ararat

Some 'recent' eyewitnesses:

http://www.noahsark.it/eyewitnesses.htm

https://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html

https://www.icr.org/article/why-does-nearly-every-culture-have-tradition-globa/

There is also the Genesis account in the marriage rites of ancient china, as well as in their very language:

Creation - C H Kang - The Discovery Of Genesis In The Chinese Language
https://ia802905.us.archive.org/21/...covery Of Genesis In The Chinese Language.pdf

You can also look up God in Ancient China on Youtube. Several good videos.

Hello soberxp, the cool thing that our scientists have discovered recently is, He didn't have to, not to cover the entire earth with floodwaters anyway. Apparently, there is far more water under our feet (in the depths of the earth) than there is in all of our various bodies of water combined. I believe that these are the great, "fountains of the deep", that are mentioned in Genesis 7 & 8.

All things considered, I do not believe it could have been otherwise.

~Deut

Both! It was global so, it was local EVERYWHERE! Lol!

Totally submerged....the planet Earth got its “water baptism” just like us.

Earth also is getting the “Holy Spirit baptism” just like us and....

Earth will get its “Fire baptism” just like us!

Woooohooo! We’re all getting purified, even planet Earth!

It had to be global. If you cover the top of a mountain.. the water around it has to be at the same level.

The local flood idea would have water covering the top of a mountain or mountains and then some how suspending itself in mid air as it stops at a point.

Aside from that .. the bible really doesn't give any indication of a local only flood

hi,~Deut
Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

What you mentioned is very interesting. If the water of the great flood was not made out of nothing, I know God can.
If think about where the water is already on/in earth, In other words, God already knew that something was going to happen,such as global flood.

If the groundwater were to came out, the scientific explanation would be that a lot of gas would be produced underground(decompose water into oxygen and hydrogen), and then the water would be squeezed out,When the flood receded,The gas rose to the surface,Then LORD smelled the pleasing aroma ,which made by him.(Because if everything on earth is destroyed Including plants
, then a lot of oxygen, may help to restore the earth's ecology such as fish in the sea , hydrogen I only found that it's good for people's health, anti-aging)

Genesis 8:21
The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

That is a great statement.

It was global, proof:

2 Peter 3:5-7
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

So, what do you think? Do you NOT have any thoughts about this?

Of course it was global, if it wasnt global then not everyone apart from the people in the Ark would have died. Everyone died apart from 8 people, and of course the rest of animals on the ark. I think God had to do that because of sinful man dominating the earth, the bible even says that is the reason why he did so.

It was a local flood in scope but universal as far as the human population is concerned. In other words all mankind perished except Noah and his family but the scope of the water was the Mesopotamian region. The animals came onboard so that the regional animal population would not be disrupted and because the water would come so fast that they would not have had a chance to escape.

According to one Hebrew scholar, the language favours a local flood. However, as communication and travel were limited at the time, it is unlikley that Noah or his contemporaries were even aware of the existence of a world beyond a few hundred miles away, and so probably would have described even a global flood as 'local'. Geological evidence certainly favours a global flood.

So how would the flood cover the top of mountains and stay only local?

GLOBAL:
In the same comparison, will the 2nd destruction with fire be local?

2 Peter 3:6-7 (KJV) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

So are you saying there were no humans outside the mesopotamian region then? Why bother with the Ark? Sounds like a waste since the animals in other places were a-okay.