How are Identification and Credit Cards Any Different From the Mark of the Beast?

Hello everyone,

First, please allow me to give a little background information about my own Christian walk -- I was raised WELS Lutheran, which sees the book of Revelation as an allegory and does not take it literally. My time here on CC has really been the first time I've met other Christians who take the book of Revelation as a literal teaching.

Lately, I have read and heard several Christians saying that a coin shortage and move towards a cashless society is an indication that the end times are near. I have also heard a lot of talk about the need for Christians to prepare for and take a stance against the things that will happen by stockpiling weapons and precious metals.

Please understand that I am coming from the perspective of someone who has studied the Bible since childhood (and therefore has some familiarity with the Bible as a whole), but yet is unfamiliar with teachings of The Rapture, The Great Tribulation, and The Mark of the Beast, because I was never taught extensively about those things. Needless to day, I have some questions.

Please note that I am NOT in any way, shape, or form, wanting to start an argument or debate over the different beliefs that people have, but rather, am trying to glean information.

My basic understanding is that the mark of the beast is something that the government will try to force onto people and that without it, you won't be able to buy food or necessities or anything else you might need to live daily life.

I currently live in the USA, and what I've observed is:

1. I have to carry (or rather, memorize) an identification number assigned to me by the government at the time of my birth (or rather, adoption,) and without it, I can't apply for a job, driver's license, passport, place to live, health care, voter's registration, or a myriad of other things we deem necessary to live.

2. I carry another card made of plastic that has my name, another number, a magnetic strip, and an electronic chip that I use to buy food and all other necessities.

I was watching a documentary in which a young woman from a very wealthy family volunteered to live on the streets as a homeless person for 3 nights to see what it was like. The very first thing she did was try to find a job at numerous places, but was turned down at every place because like many of the homeless, she didn't have a piece of identification that was assigned to her by the government (which was part of the experiment.)

The one place that did allow her to wash dishes in exchange for a meal on a one-time basis explained that they were not able to hire her due to government regulations regarding safety, etc., unless she had some form of legal ID. Without being able to hire her legally, it was too much of a legal risk to them of losing their own livelihood themselves.

And so, my questions are:

A. If we are already required to have government-assigned files and numbers in order to get jobs and function in society, how is this any different from the mark of the beast? Is it just that the mark of the beast will be something embedded into our physical body, whether through a chip or some kind of permanent marking?

B. I realize that debit and credit cards are supposedly not absolutely necessary, but it is becoming that way. At Walmart the other day, I noticed that out of 12 self-check stations, only 1 accepted cash, which was a stark change from just a few months ago. And when a friend and I tried to rent a car last year, I was standing there with 4 different forms of payment, but there was only one form that they would accept on the spot -- all the others, including cash, had stipulations or just simply weren't accepted. For myself, I have found that travel has become nearly impossible without a credit card (even debit cards are useless in many situations.)

* However, our society has been moving more towards digital purchasing for many years, not just this past year. When Adam and Eve started out in the garden, they didn't use cash. Even as the human population grew, wealth was measured in land, crops, and livestock, and I'm assuming that gold and silver wasn't added to roster until later on? If so, why are Christians so concerned about the conversion of something that that people initially lived without? Is it because digital currency is seen as being easier to steal, modify, or take away?

C. I have heard from many well-meaning Christians that we should be stockpiling cash, gold, and silver. But how would these things help us in a society that no longer accepts cash, and how would gold and silver be of use to anyone unless it could somehow be traded in for digital currency, if that's all that was being accepted?

* If you go to the store to pay for $30 worth of groceries with a piece of gold that's worth $100 (and only at that very second, since the value of gold and silver would change all the time), how would anyone be able to give you any change?

I realize these questions might sound naive, but it's something I've always wondered, especially as I seem to run into more and more Christians who are advising this. I'm not saying it's bad, I just don't understand how it would work. Even if I have $1 million in gold lying around, it's worthless if it can't be translated into the current accepted currency. Just like at Walmart -- if it gets to a point where their machines only accept cards, I can't buy food for my family, no matter how much cash, gold, or silver I might haul into the store.

Wouldn't gold and silver would be worthless to businesses unless they can turn have it converted into whatever form of currency allows them to make purchases themselves?

And again, Adam and Eve weren't worried about cash. So why do we see this as the beginning of the end of the world?

Thank you for taking the time to read and consider these inquiries. Again, I have no interest in debates or arguments, which is why I'm posting here in Miscellaneous -- I'm just simply hoping to learn from what others have to day.

May God keep you, your families, and your church fellowships safe during these very trying times.

Part of it is just Christian conspiracy theories. The people who would be keeping track of the Illuminati, the government, aliens and etc. are Christians so instead they keep track of the latest thing that could be the mark of the beast and the latest political figure who could be the antichrist. There's just something satisfying about predicting gloom. It makes a person feel like he has control if he can profess to see what is coming. Remember, economic pundits have correctly predicted eight out of the last two recessions... in other words they kept predicting a recession eight times, and the two times it actually happened they could say "See, we TOLD you!"

Part of it is a very real fear, because this is dealing with MONEY! We need that! The Bible has told us there will come a time when we cannot buy or sell without taking the mark, and the mark will keep us out of Heaven, but nobody has been told when that will happen. Could be tomorrow, could be in another hundred fifty years, but it's worrisome because this is dealing with the means we have of getting food and housing.

(And to answer the part about Adam and Eve not having money, money is just a way to break down the differences between what my computer is worth and what your cake is worth, so I can get the cake without spending a whole computer. That's why it's called liquid assets - I can let just a little flow into purchasing the cake instead of a whole big frozen chunk. Money makes it possible to pay the exact value instead of just the nearest approximate value that is in the stuff I have to trade.)

The catch is, money (and even barter) is something we invented to cope with a broken world. There won't be money in Heaven because there won't be any need. But right now, in this world, money is very important. It can be very easy to make it ALL important in our lives, and be very, very worried about the prospect of it being taken away.

But the problem with not knowing when is, it sure does stretch out the "It's coming!" phase a long time. Bar codes, the "chip" in the skin, credit cards, we can claim all of this presages the mark of the beast. I don't have historical documents to prove it, but I'm certain that for the last nineteen hundred years every time a new person rose to power there was a small group of Christians claiming "Alright, this is it! This new governor is going to be the Antichrist, and his newfangled system of putting tags on boxes to keep track of his inventory is the precursor of the mark of the beast. Soon we'll all have to carry those tags around or we won't be able to buy or sell anything!"

FYI:

Revelation 19:20 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextAnd the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 13:17 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextAnd that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Revelation 14:9 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextAnd the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:11 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextAnd the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 16:2 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextAnd the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

Revelation 15:2 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextAnd I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Not sure how any of these would relate to Credit Cards and/or Identification Cards..........

I think that such Cards are simply Administrative tools such as a SSAN, Birth Certificate....etal.......

anyhoo, I wouldn't worry about having one..........

Hello P_Rehbein,

Good to see you around the forum! Thank you for the references.

In Revelation 13:17, which is listed in your post, it says that no one is able to buy or sell unless they have mark, name, or number of the name of the beast.

The point of my thread isn't because I'm concerned about having an ID card or credit card -- but since they are required by the government, and since we do indeed need a government-issued identity number in order to buy or sell anything, how is the mark of the beast going to be any different than what we all already have to have now?

Not everyone believes the mark of the beast on the hand and forehead are literal devices or marks such as computer chips, implants, bank cards, or anything similar, and there are Scriptural reasons to believe they are not... much in the same way we would not accept that just because people were trying to build the tower of Babel meant we think they could have actually reached God that way, through their human means and/or effort, or that the laws written on our hearts are literally etched/chiseled there.

The forehead very much represents a person's thinking and beliefs, out of which arise
the actions anyone takes and the things we do and what we serve with our hands.

Revelation 14:1 says, Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion,
and with him 144, 000 who had His name and His Father's name written on their foreheads.

Revelation 22:4 says: They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.

I believe the mark is meant to be symbolic of Whom we have pledged our allegiance.

Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as reminders on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.
Deuteronomy 11:18

Deuteronomy 6:5-8 ~ Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.

Hebrews 10:16 ~ “This is the covenant I will make with them after those days,
declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their hearts and inscribe them on their minds.”

Hey..........IMO, the difference is the mark of the beast is a condemnation...........as I read the Scriptures......

It don't work out well for folks that have the mark of the beast come Judgement........ But, even Christians have ID Cards/Drivers License/Credit Cards........they will not condemn us before God

I wouldnt worry about it, because Isaiah indicates that in the new heaven and earth, God wants us who has no money to buy and eat, buy wine and milk without money and without price. see chapter 55.

if you do have gold you can use it to make paving stones or something.

some people get carried away with interpreting the book of revelation. I work in libraries and we've always had barcodes for books and the rfid tags to keep track of them. Before that were stamps and cards. stamps are probably no different from tattoos.

If we are Gods people we wont have a mark we are sealed with His seal. A lot of people dont read revelation 8 and skip over that bit.

also some people dont realise it already has happened to the jews that got marked to die in the holocaust, they all had to wear hexagrams and some got tattoos, and they couldnt buy or sell under hitlers regime.

Don't know where you live, but I do not need a government ID to buy anything.
I use cash and it works just fine.

My experience might be different from that of others, but I live in the USA and it can depend on what you're trying to buy.

Before covid hit, I traveled at least once or twice a year to visit family and friends. The year before covid hit, I was gone quite a bit, and when it came to buying plane tickets, rooms at hotels, and renting a car, cash (and even a debit card) was virtually useless.

A friend and I were faced with an emergency situation and the only thing the hotel would accept was a credit card -- along with a government issued ID. I don't know if it was just this particular chain, but I would guess it's almost all of them, due to liability (for instance, if a towel is missing from your room, they can make an additional charge to your card.)

One of the saddest things about the whole pandemic is that many of us are separated from loved ones and don't know when we will be able to see them again, if ever.

But if the opportunity does arise again, cash doesn't help much when it comes to travel. Even driving your own vehicle requires a government-issued ID, and if you have to stop for shelter along the way, you might be out of luck if all you're carrying is cash.

Even if everything you do buy can be bought in cash, you still need a government ID in order to get a job that allows you to earn it.

The whole point of this thread isn't because I'm worried that I am somehow carrying the mark of the beast, or am worried about the state of cash in our society.

Rather, the entire reason I wrote this thread is because I see many things such as a fellow thread posted right here in Miscellaneous that talks about our society heading towards cashlessness, then the mark of the beast, and then the great tribulation:

https://christianchat.com/miscellaneous/already-started.193641/



I am in no way criticizing the above thread, as I found it to be interesting.

But rather, in contrast, the question I'm asking in this thread is, "How is what's happening right now really any different from what's already been going on for many years, if not decades, before what's happening right now?"

I don't think credit cards and identification cards are the mark. If we want to look for where that is in today's world, maybe consider the birth certificate that is common in most every nation on the planet.
Without that you are not able to get anything at all when you come of age for it. No driving license, no job, of course no social security card, nothing.

I do have a SS and Medicare card issued by the Federal Government and a drivers license issued by the state.
Never realty looked at them as ID's. Can not remember the last time I had to use them.
Always paid cash for motel rooms, even last Dec. when we went to Ariz. for a week.
Have never had a problem with people not wanting my cash.
I guess if they refused my cash I would leave and go elsewhere since I do not have a credit card and never use the debit card my bank gave me.

But no worries about those being the mark because the Scripture says it will be in the hand or on the forehead.
Now I will say that what we see now may be preparing the lost to accept the mark which no believer will take.
We have a whole generation that is completely ignorant, some even stupid with out their phone that is always in their face.
Some could not even find their way home without it.

Some VERY long responses. So I’m sorry if someone has already stated the obvious as it relates to the difference between credit cards and the mark of the beast.

The mark is IN, or a permanent PART of a person.
A credit card is in my wallet.

As you hide your Profile Page, I do not know where you live. I live in Bama.........however, I expect you are not considering all the various ways you are required to have an ID of some sort.

Drivers License
SSAN
Hunting License
Fishing License
Marriage License
Bank Account Identification

etc.......etc...........

( I see someone has already approached you on this)

YOUR RESPONSE

I do have a SS and Medicare card issued by the Federal Government and a drivers license issued by the state.
Never realty looked at them as ID's. Can not remember the last time I had to use them.
Always paid cash for motel rooms, even last Dec. when we went to Ariz. for a week.
Have never had a problem with people not wanting my cash.
I guess if they refused my cash I would leave and go elsewhere since I do not have a credit card and never use the debit card my bank gave me.


How else COULD you look at them EXCEPT as Government Issued ID's??????

I suppose you are right. I just look at a government ID as something one must have on themselves at all times and must show it on a regular basis.

Arkansas driver license for 48 years.
Do not have hunting or fishing license.
Only had to have birth certificate for marriage license 57 years ago.
Had same bank account for 48 years.
Worked for same company for last 35 years before I retired.
Same voting address for 18 years.
SO, as I said, have not had to use any ID very often during my lifetime.

You are - and, have been - very blessed.

Well in my opinion the true practical value of precious metal has expired way past it's usefulness. I suspect the petro dollar will replace it and virtual banking is on the horizon. Stainless steel is more durable and useful than most soft metals. With virtual banking all we need is numbers. I personally mistrust the oil & banking cartels very much. Many might think that I'm a crackpot but I don't care. I'm to old to be concerned what those people think about me much. I trust the Bible more than men or science.

Greetings in Christ, seoulsearch!

Just like with all of the word of God, we need to pay attention to the details of scripture, especially in the book of Revelation. First of all, the proper way to read the book of Revelation is "If the plain literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense." What this means is, if the plain literal sense of what you are reading makes good sense, then don't apply a figurative, allegorical or symbolic interpretation to it. Because by doing this, it distorts the meaning of God's word. That said, let's look at the scripture regarding the mark:

"He also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name."

According to the scripture above, the mark will go in/on the right hand or forehead. This would demonstrate a distinction between government assigned files, credit and debit cards, id's and the like. And that because the scripture states that this mark will go on or in the right hand or forehead. Therefore, there will be something that will go on/in the hand or the forehead that will allow a person to buy and sell.

In addition, this mark is said to belong to the beast which the false prophet will cause all people to receive. To put this into perspective, when people go shopping for groceries, get gas, go to restaurants, pay their bills, etc., they pay electronically by swiping their credit or debit cards through the Point of Sale system to make their payment. That coming mark which will go in/on the hand or the forehead will eventually replace those other methods of electronic buying and selling, so that the mark will be the only way to electronically credit and debit one's bank account. By making all other methods of buying and selling obsolete, this is how he will force all people to receive the mark.

In answer to your question, as the Revelation 13:7 states, the beast will be given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast. Anyone who will not worship the beast, his image or receive his mark, will be enemies of the beast and therefore those who are caught will be killed. In other words, in regards to people having their farms and growing their own food, they are not just going to be allowed to reject the beast and his image and live a secluded life. Anyone who opposes this coming ruler will be hunted down and killed during that time. To be clear, not worshipping this beast, his image or not receiving his mark is not going to be an option. Since the rest of the world will be worshipping this ruler, those who reject him will probably be sought after by those who do.

These warnings come from people who don't understand that those in Christ will be removed from the earth prior to the beast and his mark according to the Lord's promise. And that because the beast and his mark will take place during the time of God's wrath, which we are not appointed to suffer. However, the Universal product code, Point of sale system and the digital buying and selling via credit and debit cards and now the insertion of the RFID chip under the skin of the hand, are all apart of the evolution of the coming mark. If you are interested in seeing this technology, please watch the following videos:

I put a chip in my hand

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C5293894ECC971F10B69C5293894ECC971F&FORM=VIRE

Why is human chipping so popular in Sweden

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2743370E610BFFE708A4274&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

Yes, beyond measure.

The main reason people are collecting gold and silver has to do with the expectation of economic collapse and the "death" of the dollar. It has less to do with the mark of the beast, except as a possible currency between people who do not take the mark and deal with each other directly and privately. You would not be able to spend and gold or silver at Walmart. It would most likely be confiscated the moment it was known that you had it on you.

Personally, I believe that Christians will not have to worry about taking the mark of the beast - they will be killed for not worshiping the beast before that scenario has a chance to come about. (i.e. - they will first kill all who will not worship the beast - then - make everyone else take the mark of the beast)

That is the way I see it, anyway...

Part of it is a very real fear, because this is dealing with MONEY! We need that! The Bible has told us there will come a time when we cannot buy or sell without taking the mark, and the mark will keep us out of Heaven, but nobody has been told when that will happen. Could be tomorrow, could be in another hundred fifty years, but it's worrisome because this is dealing with the means we have of getting food and housing.

Yes, if the bible tells us it is real then we need to pay attention, and when in history have we ever been any closer to actually having the technology to bring this to pass?